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CONLANG  April 2009, Week 3

CONLANG April 2009, Week 3

Subject:

Re: OT: and YAEPT (I guess): Movie-actors' Accents

From:

Eric Christopherson <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sat, 18 Apr 2009 19:21:40 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (82 lines)

On Apr 18, 2009, at 11:28 AM, Roger Mills wrote:

> Eric Christopherson and Paul Kershaw wrote:
>
>> On Sat, Apr 18, 2009 at 1:07 AM, Eric Christopherson
>> <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>> That has an interesting parallel to the rule in
>> Spanish, which renders the
>>> title "St." as /san/ before most male names,
>> but /santo/ before those
>>> beginning in /to/ or /do/. /santo/ is the older form,
>> of which /san/ is a
>>> clipped version. I guess there must be something in
>> the similarity of
>>> segments in /santo to.../ and /santo do.../ that
>> preserves the ending, but I
>>> would expect that similarity to cause the exact
>> opposite -- haplology.
>
> Very true, maybe they just liked the repetition of ...to  
> to..., ...to do... except there's the exception :-( San Diego,

But that doesn't start with _to-_/_do-_.

> which must be a dialect form or popularization of Santiago (St.  
> James [Jaco(pb)us]).

I've wondered for a long time whether _(San)tiago_ and _(San) Diego_  
were related, and if so, exactly how. I read in a book once that  
_Santiagüe_ was from _SANCTI IACOBI_ "St. Jacob's/James's (church,  
town, etc.)", and assumed _Santiago_ was a further development of  
that; in the same book, I think, it said that _Diego_ is from  
_DIDACUS_. I accepted that, but I see now that WP (<http:// 
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diego>) says _DIDACUS_ was likely a  
backformation from _Diego_! I'm not sure where they would have come  
up with _DIDACUS_ specifically; WP glosses it as "learned person";  
they are no doubt relating it to Greek _διδακτός_, but the  
missing _T_ is unexpected.


> Also proper name Diego, but AFAIK no "Iago" in Spanish. Maybe it  
> was considered improper to name your child after the patron saint  
> of Spain, though it didn't stop the Brits from using George, or the  
> French Denis........

It looks like _Yago_ was used in the Middle Ages.

It's interesting how names cross-pollinate and get conflated!

>
> And how did English get James from Jaco(pb)us?
> -----------------------------------
>>> Paul Kershaw wrote:
>
>>> (Something troubles me: it *feels* like I pronounce
>> <winter> and <winner>
>>> differently, but I don't know exactly how.
>
> Likely.....
>
>  On the
>> other hand when I *hear*
>>> them they sound the same. Am I just imagining a
>> different articulation?)
>
> As Mark suggests, that's probably in your head, since you (we all)  
> just know that they're two very different words that will almost  
> never occur in ambiguous environments.
>
> As a Detroiter, you must have heard the two Canadian pronunciations  
> of "Toronto"-- careful [t@'rAnto] more or less, the [r] is indeed  
> often a tap, and the [t] is distinct, even a little aspirated.  
> Proper Anglo influence I'm sure. Then there's much more common  
> casual ['tr\Ano] where the [n] is so fast (and maybe a residual [t]  
> in there) that it's almost a flap too. Maybe ['tr\A~ro]?? (tapped  
> [r] < /t/ as in "writer") As I recall, even Canadians joke about  
> that pronunciation.
>
>
>
>

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