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CONLANG  April 2009, Week 3

CONLANG April 2009, Week 3

Subject:

Re: Deriving nouns from verbs

From:

Edgard Bikelis <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Mon, 20 Apr 2009 19:17:06 -0300

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (89 lines)

On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 6:25 PM, Garth Wallace <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 1:09 PM, Edgard Bikelis <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 4:57 PM, Garth Wallace <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >
> >> Is there a term for the nouns, derived from a verb, that refer to the
> >> subject or object of the verb, e.g. the "-er" and "-ee" forms in
> >> English?
> >
> >
> > nomen agentis / agent noun, like 'doer'.
> > nomen patientis (google told me so ; ) ) / patient noun, like... 'that
> which
> > is done'
> > nomen actionis / action name, like 'deed'.
> >
> > I find those very useful in derivation...
>
> Ah, okay.
>
> I'm actually going to go with just a nomen agentis. Since voices are
> derivational, the "nomen patientis" would just be the nomen agentis of
> the passive (or middle).
>
> "Deed" would just be nomen patientis of "do", wouldn't it? The thing
> that is done is the object of "do". Or am I misunderstanding?


Hm, in this case they may be the same, deed and the thing done. Maybe I am
overcomplicating, but lets say 'I've made a table'. I'm the doer, the table
is the thing done (nomen patientis), and 'making' is the deed. Think of
'I've washed myself'. I am the doer and the patient, and 'washing' the nomen
actionis. In ausonian:

bhorós bhórom bhérti, tód kWe bhérom itá.
bearer-NOM burden-ACC bears, this-NOM and bearing-NOM 'sic'.
the bearer bears the burden, and this (is) 'bearing'.


>
>
> >> ObConlang, I'm thinking of using nominalizations of participles for
> >> this purpose, following from the regular nominalization of adjectives
> >> to mean someone or something that can be described by the adjective. I
> >> may also use them for periphrastic constructions expressing habitual
> >> aspect.
> >
> > Can you give some examples?
>
> Tangible examples, not really. I don't have enough lexicon or
> morphology set down yet to make a real sentence. It's pretty much all
> an abstract language-skeleton at this point.
>
> What I mean, though, is that a noun can be derived from an adjective
> by appending a suffix to the stem (in place of the agreement complex),
> so for example applying this suffix to the stem of the adjective
> meaning "cold" would give a noun meaning "cold thing, cold person".
> And since participles are grammatically adjectives, this same suffix
> can be used to derive the nomen agentis from an active participle.


that would not pressupose a verb made from the adjective, or that adjectives
are verbs by themselves?

adj stem + gender/number/case agreement -> adjective
> adj stem + nominal derivation -> "thing-with-quality" noun


my turn to ask : ) what is the difference?

1) I am ... green.
2) ...?


>
> v stem + participle suffix -> part stem  = adj stem
> part stem + gender/number/case agreement -> participle
> part stem + nominal derivation -> nomen agentis


But a participle _is_ a nomen agentis, is not it?


>
> voice prefix + v stem -> v stem (with arguments shifted around)


Edgard.

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