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CONLANG  April 2009, Week 5

CONLANG April 2009, Week 5

Subject:

Re: adposition (was: The rhotic as a vowel)

From:

Andrew Jarrette <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 30 Apr 2009 22:30:48 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (62 lines)

Subject:	Re: adposition (was: The rhotic as a vowel)
From:	G. van der Vegt
Reply-To:	Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>
Date:	Tue, 21 Apr 2009 09:12:15 +0200
Content-Type:	text/plain

2009/4/20 René Uittenbogaard <[log in to unmask]>:
> 2009/4/20 Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets <[log in to unmask]>:
>>
>> In "teleurstellen": to
>> disappoint, the "teleur" part is does not even exist as a separate word.
>> There's no preposition *"teleur" and no adverb *"teleur" in Dutch as it's
>> spoken nowadays - it might have been a noun or adverb in the past, but
>> nowadays it's only used in the verb "teleurstellen" -. Still,
>> "teleurstellen" is a separable verb).
>
> Maybe it's related to "teloorgaan" (to perish, also separable)?
>
> René
>

>Sorry for not replying earlier, but I only just realised/remembered this.

>There's also an archaic/poetic "teloor" (Rougly means 'lost', in the
>adjectival meaning), as seen in:

>"Niet alles schittert wat goud is,
>niet ieder die zwerft is teloor."

>(All that is gold does not glitter,
>not all those who wander are lost.)

>"teloorgaan" could therefor be analysed as "going lost",
>"teleurstellen" could have originated as "stating that <subject> is
>lost", and due to semantic shift have gone to mean disappointmeant. (I
>imagine that a "teleurstelling" could be a major disappointment.)


Sorry for the late reply to this, I had problems becoming a posting member.

I just wanted to say that "teleur-" and "teloor-" remind me of the Old
English words <lyre> "loss, destruction, damage, hurt", and <lor> "loss,
destruction", the latter only in the phrase <to lore>, which is reminiscent
of the Dutch <teloor->.  The Old English <lyre> became Middle English
<lure>, also in phrases such as <bring to lure> "bring to destruction, bring
to ruin, cause to be lost", while Old English <lor> became Middle English
<lore> with the same meaning as in Old English but not only with the
preposition <to> preceding.

If one take the Dutch words to have originally had the same meaning as the
Old/Middle English words, "teleurstellen" would literally mean "put to loss,
put to destruction, put to ruin", but maybe better "put at a loss", meaning
make someone lose what he/she expected; "teloorgaan" would mean "go to
destruction, perish".

The meaning "loss" in these words leans heavily towards "loss by
destruction" rather than "loss by disappearance/straying", although in
"teleurstellen" it is more "loss of one's hopes" (or "destruction of one's
hopes").

Andrew Jarrette

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