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AUXLANG  May 2009, Week 1

AUXLANG May 2009, Week 1

Subject:

Re: The Sambahsa thread

From:

Matthew Barnett <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

International Auxiliary Languages <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sat, 2 May 2009 23:44:17 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (50 lines)

<deinx nxtxr> wrote:
> Paul Bartlett wrote:
>> On Sat, 2 May 2009, Risto Kupsala wrote:
>>
>>>> [...]
>>
>>> I am sure that many people have thought about the same thing before.
>>> There are many constructed languages, which use small base vocabulary
>>> and a lot of compounds. In my opinion we should use them as models.
>>>
>>> If only one percent of compounds are usable, it doesn't matter. If
>>> there are 400 basic words, then there would be 400*400*0.01=1600
>>> two-syllable compounds and 400*400*400*0.01=640000 three-syllable
>>> compounds. They would be enough.
>>>
>>> However, the efficiency can be improved by selecting better root
>>> words, which would be more productive. If ten percent of compounds
>>> were usable, then there would be 400*400*0.1=16000 two-syllable
>>> words, which is more than enough for most situations.
>>>
>>>> [...]
>>
>> In any language which relies heavily on compounding, there is always
>> the problem of discriminating word boundaries.  In writing, this is
>> rarely a problem, as discrete words tends to be separated by spaces. 
>> But in continuous speech streams, things are less clear.  The
>> Loglan/Lojban people (or at least the latter; I am unsure about the
>> former) constructed their languages so that a continuous speech stream
>> could/can always be unambiguously parsed into discrete words.  This may
>> not always be the case.  Sona and Suma some to mind, for examples. 
>> This may particularly be the case for constructed languages which have
>> a simple word structure, such as V, CV, CVV, and VCV.  English, for
>> example, allows complex structures (including one CCCVCCC syllable/word
>> that I can think of), so although the vocabulary learning burden is
>> higher (and pronunciation learning for foreign adult speakers as well),
>> the word boundary parsing issue is lessened.
> 
> In some cases, it's also not easy to determine what a "word" is.  This 
> is very apparent in English where compounds are sometimes written as two 
> words, sometimes a single words, or two words with a hyphen.  Chinese 
> provides another good example as the written language is just a stream 
> of morphemic symbols.   Connected speech will be somewhat like this.
> 
> Parsing is something that I admit I have trouble with when listening to 
> a language for the first time.  POS markers do not seem to aid me, 
> though learning to listen for cues from those little words helps greatly.
> 
Is it necessary to have compound words? Could noun phrases or stacked
nouns suffice? Is it possible to use just syntax?

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