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CONLANG  May 2009, Week 2

CONLANG May 2009, Week 2

Subject:

Re: Greek miscellanea (was: Null aspect)

From:

Lars Finsen <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Fri, 8 May 2009 13:04:13 +0200

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (66 lines)

Den 5. mai. 2009 kl. 01.11 skreiv Elliott Lash:

> To butt in a bit, I can be specific about Celtic (specifically Old  
> Irish) preterite formations - although I'm not sure (in all the  
> details) about Latin and other Italic stuff.

This is interesting and thanks for the overview. The Urianian verbal  
systems are pretty simplistic for the time being, and need a lot of  
work yet to find their full forms. Old Urianian probably had much in  
common with Old Irish, which I should study more to understand the  
history of Urianian better.

> -----
> S-preterites are probably Indo-European (or at least Pre-Celtic) s- 
> aorists that have been formed from laryngeal final roots (or stems,  
> in the case of derived verbs).

S-preterites are probably irrelevant to Urianian, but I'm not 100%  
sure, because preconsonantal s is fragile in Urianian, and there may  
be some rudimentary s-forms hidden in my material somewhere.

> T-preterites are also from Indo-European (or at least Pre-Celtic) s- 
> aorists that have been formed from roots ending in certain  
> consonants (mostly r, l, m, g).  What happened here though, is  
> that   the root final combination  C-s-ti (in the 3rd singular)  
> became  C-ti,  which was then reinterpreted as Ct-i, with the 't'  
> being part of the tense stem not the personal ending.  This new  
> tense stem was then spread to other persons and numbers.

My Urianian preterite currently is based on this form. Urianian  
probably should have a strong/weak verb contrast and the t-preterites  
should be limited to the weak ones. In several languages weak verbs  
are stronger than the strong ones as they tend to snatch their bodies  
more or less. I'm not sure yet if this should be the case in Urianian  
as well. Currently, it seems I have only weak verbs in modern  
Urianian. I have to look at each and every verb to see what class  
they should belong to.

> Reduplicated Preterites are mostly Indo-European reduplicated  
> perfects. Importantly, most of these forms had o-grade of the root  
> with the first consonant reduplicated followed by 'e'   so  
> something like  C1eC2  would be  C1eC1oC2 in the perfect. This  
> became  C1eC1aC2 in Old Irish.

It's interesting that reduplicated perfects can become reduplicated  
preterites. So far I have assumed that the reduplications I have  
found in Urianian were perfects, and it may be that they are, since  
the only material I have are names, but they could be something else  
as well.

The forms that apparently contain augments seem most likely to  
function as perfects as well, in fact.

> The other two classes (the long vowel preterites) are a bit more  
> unclear in my understanding. I'm not sure where they came from, but  
> maybe someone else on the list knows?

Apparently something common to both Italic and Celtic, as Edgard  
mentioned, at least the -form. Probably an innovation, if it's not  
related to strong verbs with ablaut alteration. I should study it  
more closely, because if Italic and Celtic have it, it may be  
relevant to Urianian as well. I have browsed Thurneysen before and  
should do it again, but what else?

LEF

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