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CONLANG Home

CONLANG  May 2009, Week 4

CONLANG May 2009, Week 4

Subject:

Re: artlang advocacy/evangelism

From:

Brett Williams <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Mon, 25 May 2009 02:23:45 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (149 lines)

I said:
>> Another perhaps fanciful idea I had was that a group of us could
>> pledge that we'd all study a conlang together, and then somehow
>> (perhaps a vote or a lottery) decide which one.

To which, on Sun, May 24, 2009 at 5:40 AM, Yahya Abdal-Aziz
<[log in to unmask]> responded:
>
> YES!  YES!!  YEEEEEEEESSSSSSS!!!
>
> Ahem, that is, count me in!


Well it's on, then, as there's no particular minimum number of
participants.  We're planning ahead to all the way after the relay--
when would that be, then?-- so we can just gently mention it every
once in a while until then, around the various forums.

I guess the one thing is to figure out how to decide which language.
The only criterion for eligibility I'd suggest is that it be a
language with exactly one speaker-- not a language where there's a
conversation already (I guess even gjax-zym-byn-la would be
disqualified by my study of it), but also not a paper language that's
not yet known even to its inventor.  A language that's been spoken,
but only in private, suddenly shared, that's my idea.

If we're going to vote, the voting system I feel inclined towards is
preference voting-- everyone votes yes on as many languages as they
want, and the language with the most votes wins.  That tends to
produce winners who may or may not have a strong core following, but
who are broadly at least tolerated and disliked by few, which is I
think what we'd want here.  Does that sound reasonable?


> Do, please, document all your ideas on HOW to
> "[have] languages be social from the beginning"!
> And share those ideas with us.


My main idea is to start small.  We've seen for instance with Toki
Pona how much easier it is to ramp up a speaking community in a
language with a tiny vocabulary.  Even if I was aiming towards a
fuller language, to bootstrap a speaking community I'd start with a
tokiponishly small vocab, and then add an extra thousand words later
once people are already speaking and understanding the first few.
It's like how on a bike you've got to get moving forward before you
can switch into a higher gear.


Another idea I've had, and actually tried several times, and it works
quite well, though it might not appeal aesthetically to everyone here,
is to avoid having to bootstrap an empty language by just starting
with a natlang and making gradual changes.  One of the first
collaborative languages I was involved with was called J B Blingo, and
it was a gradually mutated English developed in an AIM chatroom with
unlinguisty school friends.  Most of the words were simple (silly)
substitutions of English, but many were new concepts, and there were
some simple grammatical twists.  It was a living language for a few
months, and by the end we would often say whole sentences without any
English words left in them, which we thought was pretty cool.  A more
linguistically advanced community could of course change the grammar
as rapidly as they were comfortable with.  But the rate of change is a
difficult balance-- faster progress inevitably means more lost
participants.


There's another idea that I've been chewing on.  Actually it feels so
right to my teeth somehow that I feel like I might end up actually
doing it.  It's still only half-gnawed, though, so let me see if I can
explain it, hmm.  What I'm imagining is a language with particular,
prepared, distinct, unique social roles.  You don't just become "a
speaker" of this language, you must take on a more particular title.
I'm imagining a conculture as well, I suppose, but it's not just a
fictional culture-- like the language itself, the imagined society is
meant to come to life as the players take their parts.

A part I imagined today just as an example is known as The Zebra.  I
imagined that The Zebra was given the task of inventing, teaching,
being an authority on how the conlang is handwritten.  Before there
was a particular person chosen as The Zebra, there would already be
images of a zebra with text in the conlang that translates "INSCRIBE
AS THE ZEBRA COMMANDS!"  The Zebra, I randomly imagined, has a unique
personal taboo of being unable to say the word for "apple", and says
some standard circumlocution like "unsayable-red-thing".  In videos or
at in-person gatherings, The Zebra wears zebra-colored face paint.  So
you see the various levels at which I mean to construct the roles:
They are given responsibilities and powers.  They are talked about,
described as being a certain way, given some ambiance.  They're given
particular linguistic distinctions, their own very unique idiolect of
the language.  And they are also given certain real-world actions that
they do, ways they dress or dance or sound or act.  So it's very
all-encompassing, as culture+language are, even though it's still just
art.


> OK, could work.  But how would you go about
> setting and maintaining standards?  Surely a
> "consulting linguist" or "consulting conlanger"
> ought to be at least a _qualified linguist_?   Or
> does that only apply where money is charged
> for services?  I think not; I'd hate for people to
> think us even flakier than they already might
> (thinking us weird is OK!) - which is what would
> happen if people had unrealistic expectations
> created but then left unmet.  What if, after several
> months of development, the conlanger's "client"
> said: "After all this time, you've done a horrible job;
> it all sounds so ugly!"


We do have just a few professional conlangers.  Marc Okrand comes to
mind of course and I feel fairly comfortable with the precedents he's
been setting.

And we also have a large number of projects that people have done for
fun for friends, though most of those don't seem to develop very far.

Perhaps there's more middle ground, though.  I don't think there's a
huge market for actually paying for conlanging, but there might be
people with more seriousness than the typical
friend-with-a-fantasy-story/rpg who could at least offer in exchange a
serious commitment to learn & continue the language.

The client that I imagined doesn't just want a language for a story.
A real language is bigger than a story.  They want a language to go
with their life.  I imagine someone who wants a language closer to
their soul; they want to be able to express something different.

Actually, come to think of it, that's what all friendships are about.
You create a personal conduit for communication, you create shared
meanings.  What I'm imagining isn't a kind of business so much as a
kind of friendship.  To heavily accentuate that aspect of friendship
as a shared linguistic space, so it becomes not just shared keywords,
phrases, undertones but a whole vocabulary that's shared.

I think there are a lot of people who would be able to express things
in that forum that they can't speak in normal language.  Many of us
use conlanging to seek out how to express our souls, and you wouldn't
have to be interested by the linguistic technical aspects to benefit
from that spaciousness.


<3,
bret-ram
aka
la stela selckiku
aka
Tterb

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