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CONLANG Home

CONLANG Home

CONLANG  May 2009, Week 4

CONLANG May 2009, Week 4

Subject:

Re: artlang advocacy/evangelism

From:

Jim Henry <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Mon, 25 May 2009 21:14:07 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (145 lines)

On Mon, May 25, 2009 at 2:23 AM, Brett Williams <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> Well it's on, then, as there's no particular minimum number of
> participants.  We're planning ahead to all the way after the relay--
> when would that be, then?-- so we can just gently mention it every
> once in a while until then, around the various forums.

The relay is supposed to end on September 2,
assuming there are no delays.

I suppose we should announce this soonish on
ZBB (can anyone suggest the appropriate forum
and subforum there for this?) and the Livejournal
conlangs group; anywhere else?   And maybe
we should go ahead and create a separate
listgroup for this project, before we announce it
elsewhere than here, so we can invite people
to join said list in those announcements.


> I guess the one thing is to figure out how to decide which language.
> The only criterion for eligibility I'd suggest is that it be a
> language with exactly one speaker-- not a language where there's a
> conversation already (I guess even gjax-zym-byn-la would be
> disqualified by my study of it), but also not a paper language that's
> not yet known even to its inventor.  A language that's been spoken,
> but only in private, suddenly shared, that's my idea.

I would suggest throwing the selection a bit wider
open  -- requiring a language that's well developed
and well documented, and in which there exists
a reasonably large corpus available for potential
learners to read and learn from by induction, but
not requiring that the conlanger already speak
said language fluently.  It's enough that the extant
corpus is large and diverse enough to prove the
language usable.   Conversely, I wouldn't want to
disqualify a language because it's had more than
one person seriously studying at some point
-- one of the things this might be good for is reviving
Larry Sulky's Ilomi, which had (I think) 3 or 4 users
at its peak three or four years ago, and
consequently has a larger corpus than a lot
of other conlangs.

Another qualification is that the conlangers whose
languages we're considering should be aware of
that and give their approval.   Someone might
conceivably have documented their conlang well
enough that we would want to consider learning
it, but not be willing to have a swarm of newbies
descending on their conlang.


> If we're going to vote, the voting system I feel inclined towards is
> preference voting-- everyone votes yes on as many languages as they
> want, and the language with the most votes wins.  That tends to
> produce winners who may or may not have a strong core following, but
> who are broadly at least tolerated and disliked by few, which is I
> think what we'd want here.  Does that sound reasonable?

Sure.


>> Do, please, document all your ideas on HOW to
>> "[have] languages be social from the beginning"!
>> And share those ideas with us.
>
>
> My main idea is to start small.  We've seen for instance with Toki
> Pona how much easier it is to ramp up a speaking community in a
> language with a tiny vocabulary.  Even if I was aiming towards a
> fuller language, to bootstrap a speaking community I'd start with a
> tokiponishly small vocab, and then add an extra thousand words later
> once people are already speaking and understanding the first few.

Or maybe start with an announced plan of starting
with a basic N words and then adding maybe
N/10 words per year until the speaker community
is satisfied with the size of the vocabulary?


> There's another idea that I've been chewing on.  Actually it feels so
> right to my teeth somehow that I feel like I might end up actually
> doing it.  It's still only half-gnawed, though, so let me see if I can
> explain it, hmm.  What I'm imagining is a language with particular,
> prepared, distinct, unique social roles.  You don't just become "a
> speaker" of this language, you must take on a more particular title.

This does sound cool.  There are precedents of a
sort, though not exactly the kind of thing you mention;
the Volapük community has the role of "Cifal", which
was first held by Fr. Schleyer and has been passed
down by a kind of apostolic succession to Brian
Bishop.  The Esperanto community has a language
academy.   Recently (a year or two ago?) Sonja
Kisa invited a dozen or so fluent speakers of Toki
Pona to form a kind of language academy to advise
her.  But what you're suggesting sounds much cooler.

......
> They are given responsibilities and powers.  They are talked about,
> described as being a certain way, given some ambiance.  They're given
> particular linguistic distinctions, their own very unique idiolect of
> the language.  And they are also given certain real-world actions that
> they do, ways they dress or dance or sound or act.

And there should be specified ways for these offices
to be assumed by new office-holders as time passes.
Maybe the rules of succession are different for each
office; some are held during good conduct, others
for specfic terms of time, etc.; some are elected
to by the speaker community at large (defined as
anyone who can read the election announcement
and ballot and follow the instructions), some elected
by the members of the language academy, some
are appointed by the holder of some specific other
office (perhaps subject to the approval of the
academy?)...  Or maybe, as long as the speaker
community size ~= the number of offices, the
roles are randomly reassigned once per year,
like the elemental roles in an Invisibles cell.

Besides the Zebra/orthography designer, I'll
suggest some other roles -- more fanciful titles
to be supplied later:

* historian
* poet laureate
* lexicographer
* ambassadors to Esperantujo, Lojbanistan, etc.

(If we're running with the idea of totem animals
for each office, I suggest the Ambassador to
Esperantujo should be the Alligator.)

Hmm... perhaps, with the approval of the conlanger
whose language is selected by the let's-all-learn-
so-and-so's-conlang project, these two projects
might be combined?

-- 
Jim Henry
http://www.pobox.com/~jimhenry/

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