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AUXLANG  June 2009, Week 2

AUXLANG June 2009, Week 2

Subject:

Re: Language creators: how well have you internalized your language?

From:

steve rice <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

International Auxiliary Languages <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Mon, 8 Jun 2009 10:40:09 -0700

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (64 lines)

--- On Mon, 6/8/09, Jim Henry <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 1:40 AM, steve
> rice<[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
> [Laadan is]
> > ...... a feminist language put together by Suzette
> Haden Elgin (I think that's the order--it spells "she") to
> counter the debilitating effect of patriarchal thinking. I'd
> as lief learn an auxlang that rooted out all the Jewish and
> Black content for a racially pure language.
> 
> If I understand correctly Ms. Elgin envisioned Laadan or
> a better conlang someone else invented along the same
> lines being used in stable bilingualism with other
> languages,
> their biases cancelling out.   Also, her
> stated intent was
> not so much to counter patriarchical thinking as to enable
> women to say things concisely that take longer to say in
> natlangs; in a recent podcast interview she said something
> to the effect that observed differences in women's
> and men's communicative styles in English led her to think
> that women might have more use for a conlang that
> grammaticalized evidentiality, validationality, and
> speech-act
> type than men would.

I'm going by her original statements. Perhaps she has extended the scope of the project, or perhaps she was just in a bad mood when she originally made the remarks I read. I can see the experimental point of facilitating female language (in the true sociolinguistic sense), just as it would be interesting to produce a hyper-masculine language. I don't see much practical use, though.
> 
> > The point under consideration, however, was semantics,
> not general wonderfulness. TP words are pretty well defined,
> whatever one may think of the language as a whole.
> 
> And that is what I was saying about Laadan as well:
> not that it was a good auxlang or a wonderful conlang
> in general (I think it may be the latter, but I haven't
> studied
> it well enough to have a strong opinion), but that its
> semantics
> are fairly well thought out and not a relex of the
> creator's
> L1.   Dana was saying Loglan and Lojban were
> the only
> conlangs he knew of where the semantics were thought
> out as a whole schema rather than naively relexed from
> the creator's L1, or hashed out ad-hoc on a word-by-word
> basis, or growed-like-Topsy after the speakers took over
> from the creator... if I understood him
> correctly.   And
> Laadan as well as Toki Pona is a counterexample;
> even if you don't like the semantics of those conlangs,
> it's clear that the creators thought out the semantic
> schemata
> of their conlangs in advance rather than making it up
> word by word.  

I didn't say otherwise. However, as he was only familiar with TP, it's the only one he referred to specifically, and thus it was the only one I referred to in commenting on his remarks.

Steve


      

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