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CONLANG  June 2009, Week 2

CONLANG June 2009, Week 2

Subject:

Re: Universal Grammar

From:

Jörg Rhiemeier <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sun, 14 Jun 2009 12:37:22 +0200

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (114 lines)

Hallo!

On Sun, 14 Jun 2009 09:40:18 +0100, R A Brown wrote:

> Jörg Rhiemeier wrote:
> > Hallo!
> > 
> > On Sat, 13 Jun 2009 19:44:17 +0100, R A Brown wrote:
> [snip]
> >> I guess at some stage you'll come across Joseph Greenberg's 
> >> 'linguistic universals'; see e.g.
> >> http://angli02.kgw.tu-berlin.de/Korean/Artikel02/
> > 
> > I have been told that for every single statement on that list,
> > a counterexample has been found by now.  
> 
> I believe this is so. But if Linvi does read up on 
> 'universal grammar' then I think he will sooner or later 
> come across these 'universals' and, therefore, should be 
> aware of them.

Quite so.

> > At any rate, language
> > typologists have become cautious about making apodictic 
> > statements about what occurs in language and what not, and
> > prefer talking about typological *tendencies* - 
> 
> I agree - at best they show _tendencies_ - they are, 
> therefore, useful guidelines for those wanting to create 
> naturalistic conlangs. Not that one should stick to the 
> 'universals', but if one is not doing so then take a look 
> and see what natlangs actually do in that situation.

Right.  The "universal tendencies" language typologists talk about
aren't laws set in stone, but useful guidelines for naturalistic
conlangers.  Anyone wishing to create a plausible human language
should have an idea of what kind of things frequently occur in
human languages and what not.  It is very useful to consult a
typological survey such as the excellent _World Atlas of Language
Structures_ ( http://www.wals.info/ ), which shows that many
features of languages cluster in particular regions (e.g., most
languages with front rounded vowels are spoken in northern
Eurasia, languages of South East Asia tend to be isolating and
tonal, etc.).

> [snip]
> > 
> >> Also David Bickerton's "language bioprogram hypothesis"; and 
> >> I am sure there are many others.
> > 
> > Bickerton's notion that creole languages implement a "default
> > setting" of the "language organ" is in my opinion ridiculous.
> 
> I am sure there are many holes in his theory.

Certainly.

> [snip]
> > 
> >> But it should be remembered that the notion of 'universal 
> >> grammar' is controversial; some feel the universal grammar 
> >> theories (there's more than one) are unfounded or, at best, 
> >> unprovable.
> > 
> > Indeed.  Surely, humans have some sort of innate faculty for
> > learning language (what Pinker called the "language instinct"),
> 
> It is a while since I read Pinker's book (my son's got my 
> copy now), but IIRC Pinker went a little further than that; 
> I seem to recall that he does think that there are set of 
> hard-wired rules built into the human brain.

It is also a while since I read it, and don't remember the details.
It indeed makes some stronger claims than what I would consider
warranted; more recent research seems to imply that most, if not
all of the neural structures involved in language reception and
language production also serve other purposes and are involved
in such activities as toolmaking (similar to the way all of the
organs used in producing speech sounds also serve other purposes);
there seems to be no specific "language organ".

> > and this faculty imposes limits on the grammatical structures
> > we can cope with (e.g., it rules out excessive multi-level
> > center-embedding); 
> 
> Yep - one of the things that conlangs can do is to test the 
> viability of different structures. It is, for example, 
> fairly clear that humans could not handle a language like Fith.

Indeed.  Only the simplest Fith sentences could be parsed by
humans in real time, even if simple Fith sentences don't look
very weird.  I once came up with some rules for a human-parsable
subset of Fith, which intrafictionally could serve as a contact
language for communication between humans and Fithians:

http://www.langmaker.com/shallowfith.htm

But real Fith allows for syntactic acrobatics the human mind
could never follow!

> > but it is very doubtful and probably
> > unprovable that there is a set of hard-wired context-free rules
> > which encode "Universal Grammar" 
> 
> Yes, I agree - it is probably unprovable.

It is a pity that all the non-sapiens hominids - Australopithecus,
Homo erectus, Neanderthals etc. - have died out; they would give
us very valuable insights into the evolution and nature of
language.

... brought to you by the Weeping Elf

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