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CONLANG Home

CONLANG  June 2009, Week 2

CONLANG June 2009, Week 2

Subject:

Re: Conlang NaNoWriMo

From:

Arthaey Angosii <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Fri, 12 Jun 2009 13:39:36 -0700

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (121 lines)

On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 2:05 AM, Jim Henry<[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> I like Amanda's idea better, though

It's Arthaey, not Amanda. She's a different list member. No worries, though. ;)


On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 5:11 AM, kate rhodes<[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> I say 10,000 minimum, but only for pre-existing languages that are
> essentially complete. There's just no good way to create a scale for
> the completeness of a language that we could use to convert to a
> number of words that would result in a roughly consistent level of
> difficulty for all participants.

Varying the goal based on "completeness" sounds like a very sensible
thing to do. It should be up to each conlanger's own subjective sense
of what goal seems challenging-yet-doable. And, unlike normal NaNo, it
should be acceptable to adjust the goal upward or downward after the
first week or so, once you've really gotten a sense of what's possible
when you're really stretching toward the goal.

Asha'ille isn't nearly complete enough to tackle even 10,000 words in
a month. My lexicon is only 1,600 words, and my entire *corpus* looks
to be only around 5,000 words.

To write one connected text of fiction, I'm going to be coining words
left and right. Perhaps coining is easier in an auxlang or a posterior
artlang, where you're applying sound changes to a very large extant
lexicon. But for an a prior artlang with a non-human, non-Earth
culture, coining takes *forever* for me.

So even just coining 5000 words in a month would be a large task, for
Asha'ille. That I'm wanting to sign up for 5000 words *of fiction*,
not just a wordlist, is mostly to be in keeping with the
crazy-but-barely-attainable spirit of NaNoWriMo. :)


On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 7:35 AM, kate rhodes<[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> If we're sticking with the spirit of NaNoWriMo it has to be something
> entirely from scratch and fictional. So, no translations and no
> factual recounting of past events. The idea being to write a creative
> story entirely from scratch in one month.

This is the idea that excites me, yes. :) Of course, even within the
official NaNoWriMo, there are "cheaters" that want to work on
non-fiction, or continue an existing draft, or what-have-you. Since
the only real reward is having accomplished whatever your goal was,
I'm pretty flexible with what should "count".

> Also, I don't think you need the Sto in NaCoStoWriMo. ;)
> NaCoWriMo seems enough to me. :)

I like "NaCoWriMo"... even if it does make me think of that song
"Kokomo" by the Beach Boys. ;)


On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 9:05 AM, Jim Henry<[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> As I said, I'd like to do this, in November or
> any other month in the next year or so that
> doesn't overlap with the Inverse Relay.

I'd vote for not-November -- I want to participate in the normal
NaNoWriMo then. (I "won" for the first time last year! Very exciting.
:))

> What will probably be even harder for me
> than completing 5000 words in gzb in a month
> is plotting tightly enough to make sure the
> story is finished in not much over 5000 words

An outline is going to be a must for me. When I did NaNo last year
without an outline, I spent a lot of my time "writing" actually
staring at the computer screen, wondering what my characters should do
next. I wrote in English, so I wasn't also wondering what words I
should use (not too much, anyway).

In Asha'ille, I'm going to be doing a lot of dictionary-lookup and
word-coining while staring at the screen. I'd much rather have an
outline to know where my story's going, to limit my
staring-into-nothing downtime. :)


On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 9:30 AM, kate rhodes<[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Actually, NaNoWriMo encourages people to NOT outline or plan the story
> in advance in any real way.

NaNo's "rules" (such as they are) do allow for outlining and
background-story thinking and such, but only for one month previous,
and only if you really feel compelled to. What they don't want is for
you to have stewed on this "perfect story" in your head that you can't
make yourself write out the first crappy draft of it and "ruin" it.

Since I'm going to have to coin words and grammar while writing, I
want myself an outline as a guide for the story itself. YMMV, of
course.


On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 10:10 AM, Jim Henry<[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> (ObConlang: does that apply to conlanging as well?  Probably.  For
> instance, it seems useful to go ahead and write a bunch of text in
> your conlang even when its grammar and lexicon are still in flux; the
> text may become totally archaic by the time the grammar stabilizes,
> but the exercise of writing in the language probably helps you spot
> problems with the grammar you otherwise wouldn't have seen.

Totally true! I started Asha'ille back in high school as a completely
linguistics-naive kid. I had a wordlist and orthography and I thought
my conlang was awesome. Until I started translating my first text. I
distinctly remember the moment I realized, "Oh my, Asha'ille doesn't
have its own grammar, it's just English with different words. Eep!"

After that point, I started reading about linguistics and Asha'ille
became its own language. But it wasn't until I tried writing in it
that I even discovered I had a problem.

I wonder what grammar issues I still have lurking around, that I'll
stumble across for this NaCoWriMo we're discussing. :)


--
AA

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