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CONLANG  June 2009, Week 2

CONLANG June 2009, Week 2

Subject:

Re: change

From:

Benct Philip Jonsson <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Fri, 12 Jun 2009 21:28:35 +0200

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (92 lines)

On 2009-06-12 Eugene Oh wrote:
> Ie decovre queus changeaïes de sonne rendt verbs Rhodrais
>  très irreguls, e.g. "HABERE" derque du as fui montru.
> Irs sens très interessés, ma y n'ave le "levelling" en
> Rhodrais par decrer c'irregulesse? I find that the sound
> changes make Rhodrese verbs very irregular, e.g. "HABERE"
> which you have shown us. They are very interesting, but
> isn't there levelling in Rhodrese to reduce this
> irregularity?
> 

There are levellings in Rhodrese, like diphthongs
creeping into unstressed syllables or getting lost
in stressed syllables, but that shows up mostly in
derivation and not in inflexion.  To tell the truth
I'm loth to introduce a lot of easy-bought, agglutination-
like regularity.  Old French had very little 'levelling'
and got along quite well, and Italian to a high degree
has foregone levelling, not least in the verb system
where you'll find a lit of first person singulars
witha a different consonantism than the rest of the
paradigm because the VL form had a -J- which was
lacking in the other forms, and alternation
between diphthongs and monophthongs according to
whether the stem or the ending is stressed is hardly
an irregularity. Allomorphy can be regular, mind you!
My suspicion is that much of the levelling which took
place in French was due to the fact that most inflection
and distinctive stress were lost, so that the alternations
didn't seem motivated anymore.  That wouldn't apply to
Rhodrese where there is no loss of final _-e_ or final
consonants, and where variable stress remains in place.
In fact Rh. develops into a strongly stress-timed language
like English or Russian, where if anything the difference
between stressed and unstressed syllables are increased
-- mid vowels merge with high vowels in unstressed
syllables, even though the orthography doesn't keep up
with this change.  How realistic the idea of such a language
arising and spreading in medieval Gaul is is another
question; quite possibly the conditions were different
way back in VL times in the ATL.

Actually I do have a problem with HABERE just for the very
reason that the first and second persons singular in Rh.
usually are identical except for the second person being an
umlauted version of the first: it wouldn't be surprising if
'I have' became _jo hau_, but then this is probably the most
frequent verb in the language due to its use as an
auxiliary, and as such it's likely to resist levelling.

As for the forms of _caungiar_ the alternation between
word final nasals and nasal+voiced stop clusters
when endings are added is regular.  Mind you that non-
geminate final nasals were lost before the loss of the
final consonant in such clusters, and after it final voiced
stops were devoiced, so the alternation in e.g.
_rodon :: rodonde_ is kind of allophonic, and moreover it
helps avoid homonymy:
_mond_ and _mont_ would be homonyms, but _mon_ and _mont_
aren't, and the adjective _mondiáo_ would seem regular to a
native speaker: after all -ND- was much more frequent than
-NN- in Latin.  The historically regular form of MUNDIALIS
would be _*monzáo_, but it's a semi-learned word!

Then there is the purely aesthetic aspect that I want to
avoid the _dg_ spelling.  I find it ugly and kludgy, but
haven't been able to come up with anything which I like
better and which seems like something which actually
could have developed in medieval times.  Lucals are and
were different, but not in showing an early penchant for
diacritics!  Actually I have a 16th century grammarian
trying to introduce spellings like _ģ ş şç ţ_ instead of
_dg sdg/sg x/sç tx_; his motivation was to bring Rh. spellings
and letter values more in line with Latin ones
(_CS pro X et X pro sibilantem perbarbaricae scripturae
sunt_), but he did only partially succeed: people started
using _sc/sç_ instead of _x_ for all instances of /S/,
but his chief enemy _tx_ remained in place.  The reason:
printing types for _ç_ were already available and easy to
come by, but the other ones had to be specially made!

Too tired to provide a Rhodrese 'original'...

/BP 8^)>
-- 
Benct Philip Jonsson -- melroch atte melroch dotte se
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  "C'est en vain que nos Josués littéraires crient
  à la langue de s'arrêter; les langues ni le soleil
  ne s'arrêtent plus. Le jour où elles se *fixent*,
  c'est qu'elles meurent."           (Victor Hugo)

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