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CONLANG  June 2009, Week 3

CONLANG June 2009, Week 3

Subject:

Re: Teaching/Learning Methods; Collaborating

From:

"J. Burke" <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Fri, 19 Jun 2009 20:29:10 -0700

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (89 lines)

--- On Fri, 6/19/09, Jim Henry <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> From: Jim Henry <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Teaching/Learning Methods; Collaborating
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Date: Friday, June 19, 2009, 11:06 PM
> On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 10:10 PM, J.
> Burke<[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
> 
> > This has also been my own favored way to create
> conlangs--mostly through translation of texts.  I remember
> how much Algonquian poetry and Bloomfield's Memominee texts
> drove the development of the Central Mountain vocabulary; I
> discovered whole new constructions I'd never considered,
> 
> Translation is a useful way of discovering holes in your
> grammar and
> lexicon, and a more enjoyable way of filling them in than
> just working
> your way through something like _Describing Morphosyntax_
> or the
> Lingua Questionnaire or a thesaurus.   The
> late Don Harlow argued that
> one reason Esperanto worked as well as it did from the
> beginning was
> that Zamenhof had done a lot more translation into it
> before he
> published anything about it than Schleyer or other early
> auxlang
> creators.   I've found translation very
> useful at every stage in
> developing gzb.
> 
> But original writing is important too, in a different way;
> Rick
> Harrison somewhere argued that original writing is more
> helpful than
> translation in establishing a conlang's unique character,
> and my
> experience suggests he's right.   George
> Steiner in _After Babel_
> cites Johann Gottfried von Herder as saying something about
> the
> benefits of a language and culture "guarding itself from
> all
> translations".   I'd not go to that
> apparently xenophobic extreme, but
> I would suggest that, at least for artlangs if not for
> engelangs and
> auxlangs, it might be a good idea to plan to do a certain
> amount of
> original writing in a conlang before doing the first
> translations into
> it.
> 
> When you're doing a translation, I suspect you may be more
> unconsciously influenced by the grammar and lexicon of the
> source
> language than you're influenced by your native language and
> other
> languages you know well when you do original writing -- at
> least, once
> you're at a stage where you attain a certain degree of
> fluency in the
> conlang.   Several of my first-draft
> translations from English into
> gzb, for instance, have unsatisfactory coinages that are
> calques of
> English equivalents.   Whereas the unique
> idioms of gzb that I'm most
> happy with were mostly developed or invented while writing
> my journal.
> 
> -- Though that could be just sample bias and confirmation
> bias: the
> vast bulk of the gzb corpus is the journal, and if I
> already had a
> theory about whether translation or original writing were
> better for
> this or that purpose and was looking for confirmation of
> it, there
> would be plenty of confirming evidence either way.

I should mention my other method of gaining vocab, as it connects with this: inventing place and personal names for the mythology (and now THE SPIRIT-WEAVER).  Actual lengthy texts are few, though--I just have never had a use for them.


      

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