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CONLANG  July 2009, Week 1

CONLANG July 2009, Week 1

Subject:

Re: Holly Lisle's Create A Language Clinic

From:

David Peterson <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sun, 5 Jul 2009 14:26:55 -0700

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (79 lines)

This is about what I expected.

On Jul 5, 2009, at 1◊37 PM, Paul Hartzer wrote:

>> From: David Peterson <[log in to unmask]>
>> If you want to look at it by the numbers, though, this will still
>> elevate most "literature" ahead of most "popular" texts (assuming
>> our definitions match here).  After all, Moby Dick wasn't popular
>> at all when it was published, but two hundred years from now,
>> people will still be reading it.
>
> A few comments:
>
> 1. How many people are reading Moby Dick because they truly find it  
> entertaining, and how many are doing so because (a) it's considered  
> literature, and they put a premium on looking elite/intelligent/ 
> whatever or (b) it was assigned to them in English Lit 101?  
> Certainly some portion of readers find it entertaining, but in my  
> experience they represent the minority of readers for that  
> particular book.

Right, but a read book entertains more people than an unread one.  By  
your original metric, then, Moby Dick would still beat them all.   
(Note: (a) also presupposes that people talk about what books they  
read to other people.  I find that to be less and less the case...)

> 2. Is the gauge of a good storyteller that they speak to their own  
> audience but not to future ones, or that they speak to their own  
> audience but not to future ones? Certainly the greatest storyteller  
> speaks to both types of audiences, which is a large part of why  
> Shakespeare is held in such esteem. Many other authors were able to  
> do the same, such as Dickens, Hemingway, and so forth. And sure, I  
> think books such as No 1 Ladies Detective Agency will be forgotten  
> in time, but why should the entertainment of people Melville wasn't  
> writing for be given greater weight than the entertainment of people  
> McCall Smith was explicitly writing for?

Because there are more of them.  (This is if entertaining people is  
taken as the metric.)

> 3. I don't really think that most of the arbiters of "literature" in  
> the English-speaking world (at least) are really looking at  
> entertainment value at all. Moby Dick is discussed in literature  
> classes because it does an excellent job of addressing certain  
> questions about the human experience, not because it's a fun read.  
> But I don't really think Donald Sutherland's character in Animal  
> House is far off for how a lot of readers see such works (Professor  
> Jennings: "Don't write this down, but I find Milton probably as  
> boring as you find
> Milton. Mrs. Milton found him boring too. He's a little bit
> long-winded, he doesn't translate very well into our generation, and
> his jokes are terrible. But that doesn't relieve you of your  
> responsibility for this material.
> Now I'm waiting for reports from some of you... Listen, I'm not  
> joking.
> This is my job!")


A poor choice, in my opinion; Milton's one of my all-time favorites.  :(

I have to agree with this:

'However, we have developed a sense of "literature" in our culture(s)  
where entertainment value is only a minor criterion of worth.'

The criterion that replaced it is popularity.  It doesn't matter if  
Milton is entertaining: He's an old stuffshirt that can't possibly be  
relevant any longer, and so no one should read him.  Instead, we  
should all read Twilight.

-David
*******************************************************************
"sunly eleSkarez ygralleryf ydZZixelje je ox2mejze."
"No eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn."

-Jim Morrison

http://dedalvs.com/

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