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CONLANG Home

CONLANG Home

CONLANG  July 2009, Week 2

CONLANG July 2009, Week 2

Subject:

Re: phonology, critique pls

From:

R A Brown <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Mon, 13 Jul 2009 11:20:35 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (68 lines)

Paul Roser wrote:
> On Sat, 11 Jul 2009 12:23:36 +0100, R A Brown <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
[snip]
>> IIRC Swati has only the dental grade of clicks.
> 
> Dahalo also has a very reduced set of clicks, voiced and voiceless nasalized dental 
> (narrowly, probably lamino-dentialveolar), 

Certainly reduced, but even here we have contrast between 
voice and voiceless in two different positions of 
(co)articulation.

> which may also be rounded/labialized or plain 
> (labialization being a feature that similarly occurs with some other coronals and dorsals 
> as well). Of course, Dahalo is also one of the few languages in the world with two 
> voiceless lateral fricatives, alveolar (┬▒labialized) vs palatal paired with ejective 
> affricates.

Yes, Dahalo's phoneme inventory is certainly unusual. I 
wonder how, if we didn't know of Dahalo, we would have 
reacted to someone producing a similar inventory for a 
conlang   ;)

> Damin has only a set of voiced nasalized clicks, 

A one dimensional set. It does seem to me that if clicks 
occur in a natlang as an integral part of the phoneme 
inventory (i.e. not just as odd exclamations), there is more 
than one of them.

> though the entire consonant system of  Damin is somewhat unique, 

It certainly is! Which, i guess, is one reason that some 
consider to be a conlang devised by the Lardil elders.
[sip]

>> Yes, altho odd clicks may occur as exclamations in many
>> languages that do not otherwise have them (e.g. in English),
>> I know of no natlangs that have a single, solitary click as
>> part of its phoneme inventory.
> 
> I've also seen a reference to a dialect of one of the NE Caucasian languages (Agul?) that 
> included the bilabial click in its inventory, though the notes indicated it only occurred in 
> the onomatopoeic word for 'kiss'.

That sounds suspect to me. I've come across bilabial click 
among English speakers when imitating a 'kiss' sound.

>> I guess in a language with a restricted consonant inventory
>> such as the Polynesian languages, one might come across this
>> (tho the Polynesian langs, of course, do not have clicks);
>> but even then I would expect a nasal & non-nasal click.
> 
> Or voiced vs voiceless nasal clicks, as in Dahalo. 

Agreed.

-- 
Ray
==================================
http://www.carolandray.plus.com
==================================
"Ein Kopf, der auf seine eigene Kosten denkt,
wird immer Eingriffe in die Sprache thun."
[J.G. Hamann, 1760]
"A mind that thinks at its own expense
will always interfere with language".

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