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CONLANG  August 2009, Week 1

CONLANG August 2009, Week 1

Subject:

Re: Recreating Pakuni language from on-screen examples

From:

Thomas Alexander <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Mon, 3 Aug 2009 11:05:33 -0700

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (103 lines)

Hi Jim,

I know it's not quite conlanger cool to blur
the distinction between sounds and letters, so
I'll do my best - although it's still my custom
to talk about "the letter S" rather than "an
unvoiced dental sibilant" or whatever they're
calling them these days.

> Is it clearly pronounced /ogansa/ in other
> context by the same or other actors?  Or does
> "ogan(s|z)a" only occur in that one phrase
> throughout the show?

The word is used in several contexts and I've
only noted one example where the S is unvoiced.
My impression is that it's only spelled wth a
Z in certain fan web pages.  The official sources
I've managed to dig up spell it with an S --
which suggests to me that it was intended to be
unvoiced.

> > 1 - declare that the word really is
> > pronounced with an unvoiced s.
>
> That would make sense if /ogansa/ is
> attestested in other contexts.

How about if in only one?

I think it also depends on whether we imagine
that we're creating a guide for people watching
the original series, or a guide for the creation
of Pakuni dialog in future works.

> > 2 - declare that "s" can be voiced or unvoiced.
>
> That might make sense; if Pakuni has only
> phonemic /z/, then [z] is a plausible,
> probable allophone of /s/.

I do like that idea - although it strikes me
as odd that the allophone turns up in only one
context.

> > 3 - declare that "s" can be (or perhaps
> > "always is") voiced after a nasal.
>
> Are there any other words where /s/ occurs in a
> cluster with /n/, or anther voiced consonant?

Possibly.  I thought of a possible example yesterday.
The tyranosaur in the show is sometimes called "abobo"
sometimes "akingo".  It's possible that "abobo" is a
general word for dinosaur (since it's used to describe
a brontosaurus), but some have suggested that "abobo"
means tyranosaur and "akingo" is this tyranosaur's name.
Since his name is "Grumpy" in English, "akingo" would
mean "grumpy one" -- which would make "kingsa" an
adjective meaning "grumpy."

Of course, even if this dubious(*) speculation is
correct, I'm inclined to pronounce "kingsa" with
an unvoiced S.

(*) if abobo doesn't mean specifically tyranosaur,
it's unusual that it's usually sufficient to describe
a tyranosaur, while other dino species are mentioned
by name.  If it does mean tyranosaur, it's odd to say
that a brontosaurus is a big tyranosaur.  Perhaps we
are touching on areas where Pakuni semantic bountries
are different from those in English.


> > 4 - introduce the letter Z to your Pakuni
> > alphabet and respell the word "oganza" with a Z.
>
> The orthography is a separate issue

I meant, introduce a the sound "z" to your Pakuni
phonemic inventory and treat words pronounced with
voiced vs unvoiced sibilants as distinct words.

> and would depend on your choice of solutions to
> the underlying phonological question.  But if [z]
> is an allophone of /s/, I would not expect the
> orthography to represent it with a separate letter.

Right, that's what I meant.  Number 4 would treat
[z] and /s/ (*) as non-allophonic.

(*) I'm copying your terms here and trusting on
faith that we're talking about the same things -
the sounds made by Z and S in Esperanto.

Amike salutas,
Thomas/Tomaso ALEXANDER.
www.NightinGael.Net
---Anything below this line is not from Thomas ---


      

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