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CONLANG  August 2009, Week 1

CONLANG August 2009, Week 1

Subject:

Re: A spoken-only conlang

From:

"Mark J. Reed" <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 6 Aug 2009 07:40:17 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (55 lines)

"Cwm" is an unassimilated borrowing from Welsh, in which <w> is
definitely a vowel.  Ergo, cheating. :)

We were taught that the vowels were "A, E, I, O, U, and sometimes Y.".
Never W.  This is an instructive list - the "sometimes" means that
it's not just the letter itself, but the sound the letter makes in a
particular word. But the vowels are still identified with the letter
rather than the sound, or else you could use I everywhere you would
otherwise have to give Y a temporary promotion to vowel status.

So presumably under this definition, silent E is not a vowel.  Since W
is not in the list, diphthongal offglides can't count, so Y must not
be a vowel in "day" (though it surely is in "dye", where E isn't one).

Funny how this all used to seem simple. ;)

From a phonological standpoint, a quick look at any dictionary's
pronunciation key will show that English has about a dozen distinct
vowel phonemes.  At least phonetically, most dialects also have some
non-vocalic syllable nuclei - [m=] in "hm", [n=] in "button", [r\=] in
some rhotic pronunciations of "butter" - but these may be considered
realizations of phonemic schwa + consonant.
Hm. Hey, how do those work in an analysis where schwa isn't a phoneme?
 Just a further reduction from phonemic /On/ or whatever?


On 8/6/09, Philip Newton <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 01:27, Roger Mills<[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> I did not learn linguistic terminology until I was 35, in Ling 101 in grad
>> school. Like almost everyone, I found the concept of "phoneme/allophone"
>> difficult to grasp-- to those of us brought up on "how letters are
>> pronounced" it can be difficult to separate phonemics from spelling.
>
> Indeed. As witness the confusion regarding the word "vowel".
>
> For example, is "Y" a vowel? Is "W"? What about in "cwm"?
>
> Does English have five vowels? Six? A dozen or more?
>
> It all depends on whether the definition is based on *letters* or *sounds*.
>
> (Though even within sounds, you can get more and less technical; for
> example, whether /r/ is a vowel in Czech or Slovak or Croatian /krk/.)
>
> Cheers,
> Philip
> --
> Philip Newton <[log in to unmask]>
>

-- 
Sent from my mobile device

Mark J. Reed <[log in to unmask]>

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