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CONLANG  August 2009, Week 1

CONLANG August 2009, Week 1

Subject:

Re: What's the difference between an affix and a particle?

From:

Eugene Oh <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sat, 1 Aug 2009 15:18:23 +0800

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (65 lines)

The English contracted example is more pertinent in this case: like so  
many Jspanese inflexional endings, it is descended from -nu, which  
means exactly the same thing, and is still seen in deliberate  
formalisms/archaisms. I wouldn't call it an auxiliary any more than  
I'd call -nai (the modern equivalent) anything other than a suffix.

If -n were truly an auxiliary verb, it would take a past tense  
inflexion and not "deshita". (:

Eugene

Sent from my iPod

On Aug 1, 2009, at 4:20 AM, Andreas Johansson <[log in to unmask]>  
wrote:

> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 10:16 PM, Andreas  
> Johansson<[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 10:10 PM, Garth Wallace<[log in to unmask]>  
>> wrote:
>>> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 12:30 PM, Philip Newton<[log in to unmask] 
>>> > wrote:
>>>> 2009/7/31 Eugene Oh <[log in to unmask]>:
>>>>> One would definitely not separate "arimasen" as "ari mase n".
>>>>> (:
>>>>
>>>> I wouldn't be so certain :) I saw just that treatment in a book on
>>>> Japanese I encountered when I was younger.
>>>>
>>>> Though to be precise, I'm not sure whether they used spaces and
>>>> whether they called "mase" and "n" separate words. But they did say
>>>> that they are separate morphemes
>>>>
>>>> IIRC the book said that "masu" was an auxiliary verb that is used  
>>>> to
>>>> indicated politeness, and "n" is an auxiliary verb used to indicate
>>>> negation, which conditions the inflected form "mase" of the  
>>>> auxiliary
>>>> "masu". So perhaps it did count them as separate words, if it
>>>> considered them separate verbs.
>>>>
>>>> (Which I thought then was odd; I had simply learned it as a
>>>> quasi-inflectional ending: "masu" in the positive and "masen" in  
>>>> the
>>>> negative. Seeing "n" described as an auxiliary verb struck me as  
>>>> quite
>>>> odd, which is why that was so memorable.)
>>>
>>> I've only seen them described as inflectional endings. Calling  
>>> "masu"
>>> an auxiliary is odd but maybe defensible, but calling "n" an  
>>> auxiliary
>>> seems insane. Can a word be less than a syllable?
>>
>> Yes; English, frex, offers subsyllabic forms of the copula: "He's  
>> tall"
>
> Or if you prefer uncontracted examples, the Russian preposition _v_
> (meaning "in" and the like).
>
> -- 
> Andreas Johansson
>
> Why can't you be a non-conformist just like everybody else?

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