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CONLANG  August 2009, Week 1

CONLANG August 2009, Week 1

Subject:

Re: Recreating Pakuni language from on-screen examples

From:

Thomas Alexander <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Wed, 5 Aug 2009 17:57:22 -0700

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (120 lines)

Hey Mark,

Most of what you're saying is indeed familiar.  I'm just not
used to needing to be so precise.

"Mark J. Reed" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> > I could list several examples where the pronunciation
> > of CH and J are routinely switched.

> That happens in English, too, really;

There are a few instances in the show where it could be
a case of the sounds "not always being very clear in actual
connected speech" (or while wearing false Pakuni teeth),
but I think it's more a case of the actors mis-learning the
language as they went - perhaps copying each other's
mispronunciations.  A more drastic example is the published
word "tiri" (indeed used in the show) which eventually
became "chiri".

> we just adjust what we hear based on expectations.

Ain't that the truth!  I transcribed season 2 first and then
found out that there are already transcriptions on the
Internet.  For season 1 my method was to do my own
transcription, compare mine to the existing one, then go
back to the show to confirm who is correct.  In some cases
the sounds I hear change with the words I'm looking at.

> So "chi" and "ji" constitute a minimal pair indicating
> that "ch" and "j" (/tS/ and /dZ/) are distinct phonemes.

Exactly what I would have said - except that I was not
familiar with the term "minimal pair."

To kind of bring things back to the original topic, one
thing I'm trying to guard against is the temptation to
try too hard to connect all the dots.  Given any number
of data points, it's possible to draw a curve to connect
them all.  this doesn't mean that the curve is at all
parsimonious, nor that it would explain any new data.
I've seen this in a lot of the fan disucssions of Land
of the Lost where incidental details of how things are
portrayed (such as the color and state of an old fern)
are used to sleuth deep details about the story.  It's
possible it was the easiest color fake fern available
the day they made the dummy.

One person concluded that Pakuni are not native to
the land of the lost because their word for Sleestak
doesn't have a vowel prefix like native nouns have -
showing that this word is a recent borrowing.  That's
fine, except the same thing is true of the Pakuni word
for Paku.  It's seems that the pakuni are not native
even to the world they came from.  The more parsimonious
answer is that "sleestak" and "paku" were coined by
the Kroffts or the story writers without consulting
Professor Fromkin.

Along these lines are whether "agomba" can mean both
"tyranosaur" and "dinosaur.  I'm about ready to conclude
that it can -- in the same way that "cat" means housecat
and lion.  My curve goes through all the data points and
is still somewhat parsimonious.

Pakuni has two words glossed as "to do" in fan dictionaries.
I'm starting to think that one of them ("shi" - also
mistakenly glossed as "it" in some fan dictionaries)
really means "to attempt to do" or "to undertake a task."
It's tempting to say that this word "shi" has a meaning
close to, but not quite the same as "to try", in that
it suggests a greater surity of success.  By this time
I wonder if I'm just drawing a wigly line through all
my data points.

> Phonetic effects like this are not usually governed by
> morphosyntactic considerations - <...>
> But there are exceptions, so it could go either way;
> I'd base the analysis on how things actually sound
> on the show.

There are no examples in the show.  That's the problem.
I suppose one could claim that the ending <sa> is always
pronounced /sa/ (or is it [sa]) when the word is an adjective.

> So if <akingo> is [@kiNgo],

Well, that's the first "if."  The actors do pronounce it [akiNgo]
(won't swear whether it's [a] or [@]) but I'm not convinced
it's corect.  It's all I have to go on, though.


> the question is whether <kingsa> would be
> [kiNsa], [kiNza], [kiNgsa], or [kiNgza].

Right ... or [kiNksa], I suppose.  My speculation was that
the root word is /kiN/ (grumpy) and that the word <akingo>
(the grumpy one) is a derrivation meant to be pronounced
/akiNo/ and that the /g/ was added by the English speaking
actors who saw <akingo> in the script.

> It's likely that if [n] triggers voicing of /s/ to [z],
> then so would [N] (and [m] for that matter), but not necessarily.

If we underline "if", this is my point exactly.


> Both of those are English pronunciations of the written word <chi>;

It's just amazing to me that both apparently made it into the show.

Amike salutas,
Thomas/Tomaso ALEXANDER.
www.NightinGael.Net
---Anything below this line is not from Thomas ---


      

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