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AUXLANG  August 2009, Week 3

AUXLANG August 2009, Week 3

Subject:

Re: Tempting people with traffic

From:

"<deinx nxtxr>" <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

International Auxiliary Languages <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Wed, 19 Aug 2009 01:26:43 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (150 lines)

MacLeod Dave wrote:
> 2009/8/19 <deinx nxtxr> <[log in to unmask]>:
>> MacLeod Dave wrote:
>>
>>>> More people does = more *potenital* traffic.
>>> Right. And we're writing in English here, the language of a few
>>> billion. How much traffic does Auxlang get?
>> Considering that this is a group of very little interest to the population
>> at large, I'd say we have a lot here. �Don't blame the language so much as
>> the subject matter.
> 
> Right, now let's say that there's a group of 2000 or so people that
> will join auxlang, participate in the discussion and probably write
> about auxlang on their own sites too if we choose to write the
> majority of our posts in French over the next six months, a language
> that many of us can at least follow and carry on a conversation in.
> Pretty tempting offer, don't you think?
> 
>> And do note that we are using *English* not Esperanto, Ido, etc. That fact
>> itself is a testament to the situation at hand. �If auxlangers can't use
>> their favorite auxlangs in a group dedicated to auxlangs, then there is a
>> serious problem with just how useful they are.
>>
>>
>>>> �I don't see any reason why
>>>> Esperantists are going to be any more or less interested in what's on the
>>>> site than an anglophone will. �Just because someone pledges to visit the
>>>> site doesn't mean they'll like what they see enough to fully participate.
>>> The pledge would be to visit, and participate.
>> You may get the pledge but I can't see anyone participating unless they have
>> something to say. �That means the content would have to be of interest to
>> all who participate.
> 
> No it wouldn't. That's the whole point of the pledge, to commit to
> reading and writing about the subjects on the site. I don't usually
> spend my time writing about Firefox or Ubuntu or Latvia but it would
> be easy enough to commit to following a site that wrote about those
> subjects and adding the odd comment here and there.
> 
>>
>>>> �The fact that they somehow feel obliged to visit it may just tire them
>>>> after a while anyway.
>>> Doubtful. Esperantists and other auxlangers are very interested in
>>> promoting their respective languages. If the site was interesting to
>>> begin with it would be easy enough to visit it once a day and write a
>>> comment.
>> *If* it was interesting to begin with. �Esperantists though, like everyone
>> else don't necessarily share the same interestes just because they speak a
>> common language.
>>
> 
> Hence the point of the pledge. You're assuming a natlang worldview on
> an auxlang community. It's completely different when one's goal is to
> promote a language. That in and of itself is motivation for an
> Esperantist.
> 
>>>> �If X% of the people out there have an interest in my
>>>> subject matter then I'd rather have X% of the anglophone population than
>>>> X%
>>>> of some small language with only a few users. �Again this idea isn't
>>>> going
>>>> to appeal unless someone already had an interest in E-o, in which case
>>>> I'd
>>>> suspect they are already using it out there on the existing E-o blogs.
>>> No, many people are interested in the idea of learning a language like
>>> E-o but simply haven't gotten around to doing it. I first thought
>>> about learning E-o back in 2000 when I noticed a book on the language
>>> in the library in Vancouver, but didn't get around to learning E-o
>>> (and then Ido a few days later) until 2005. It was on my to do list
>>> for a full five years before I got around to doing it.
>> I first starting learning it back around 1980-81 when I ran across a small
>> booklet. �At that time the lack of ability to find further materials held me
>> back as well as the lack of others to use it with. �Somewhere around 1990 I
>> found a dictionary in a used bookstore, then later starting finding
>> materials on the web but even there the opportunities to really use it were
>> and still are scarce. �Sure there are blogs and forums out there in E-o
>> already, but the subject matter is nothing of interest to me. �Somewhere in
>> between then and now I found other conlangs that I liked better than E-o but
>> their lack of popularity makes them even more unusable. �Now if I found an
>> E-o site that did have some material of particular interest to me that
>> wasn't already available to me in English or some other language that I'm
>> familiar with, then yes I'd be motivated to participate in E-o but I'm not
>> going to visit a site and read a bunch of prolefeed just because it's in my
>> favorite auxlang.
>>
> 
> Sure you would. Let's say a site in Sasxsek sprung up out of nowhere
> that was all about Christmas traditions. I know you'd still read it.

As a militant atheist who despises Christmas and everything 
surrounding it I'd find it disgusting (yes, you hit a hot button). 
As creator of Sasxsek, I would check it out, but mainly just to 
offer advice regarding language usage to those who may still be 
learning.  This of course would assume this was one of few sites 
too.  I would guess that by the time sites like this cropped up, the 
language would be so popular that I probably wouldn't have time to 
check them all out.  Esperanto may not be popular in the grand 
scheme of things but is popular enough that not every E-ist can or 
will check out every E-o site just because it's an E-o site.

This is precisely why I haven't gotten involved in any particular 
conlang.  As they exist today these languages are all self-serving 
entities.  Where's are the real-world applications of these 
languages?  Where are the daily news sites?  Where are the 
television programs?  Where is the steady stream of new and original 
content?


> 
>>>> ... I know you have a FB
>>>>
>>>> profile, so why not start by putting your own profile in E-o and using it
>>>> for your own posts instead of, or at least in addition to English? �There
>>>> are some E-o groups already on there that you can use to announce
>>>> yourself
>>>> as an E-ist look for people to read your posts.
>>> This isn't about me personally, but even if I were to do that the
>>> effect would be minimal. I'm talking about a large group that is
>>> capable of actually making a difference. Liberafolio.org is an example
>>> of how much traffic can be generated by Esperantists (has a PR of 6).
>> It's not about you, but if you are an advocate of these languages and wish
>> to help promote them then lead by example. �How are you going to get others
>> to do something when your not doing it yourself?
> 
> Because the idea is about forming a _group_, not simply working alone.

And that's what I've been bringing up.  Groups already exist to 
serve E-ists.  I don't see any particular point in reinventing the 
wheel.  In any case groups are made up of individuals.  Even more 
interesting than visiting some site to vicariously follow and 
discuss the happenings of one person would be a group dynamic where 
people all interact with each other in a more social setting.


>>> Your idea about some sort of auction site that gives a discount to
>>> those using the language is a good one though.
>> That's because I'm appealing to one of the most fundamental motivators of
>> people, greed.
> 
> As does the potential for large and steady traffic to one's site. Only
> the currency is different.

It depends on the person's motivation for having the site.  I'd 
imagine that someone who would go to the extreme of learning another 
language to satisfy his own vanity is probably someone others might 
  find more arrogant than interesting.  The only other type maybe 
would be a propoganda site by someone who is trying to promote their 
own personal religious, political or social agenda.  Topics like 
this aren't good for anything other than starting flame wars.

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January 2004, Week 4
January 2004, Week 3
January 2004, Week 2
January 2004, Week 1
December 2003, Week 5
December 2003, Week 4
December 2003, Week 3
December 2003, Week 2
December 2003, Week 1
November 2003, Week 5
November 2003, Week 4
November 2003, Week 3
November 2003, Week 2
November 2003, Week 1
October 2003, Week 5
October 2003, Week 4
October 2003, Week 3
October 2003, Week 2
October 2003, Week 1
September 2003, Week 5
September 2003, Week 4
September 2003, Week 3
September 2003, Week 2
September 2003, Week 1
August 2003, Week 5
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August 2003, Week 3
August 2003, Week 2
August 2003, Week 1
July 2003, Week 5
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July 2003, Week 3
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June 2003, Week 5
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June 2003, Week 1
May 2003, Week 5
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May 2003, Week 3
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May 2003, Week 1
April 2003, Week 5
April 2003, Week 4
April 2003, Week 3
April 2003, Week 2
March 2003, Week 5
March 2003, Week 4
March 2003, Week 3
March 2003, Week 2
March 2003, Week 1
February 2003, Week 4
February 2003, Week 3
February 2003, Week 2
February 2003, Week 1
January 2003, Week 5
January 2003, Week 4
January 2003, Week 3
January 2003, Week 2
January 2003, Week 1
December 2002, Week 5
December 2002, Week 4
December 2002, Week 3
December 2002, Week 2
December 2002, Week 1
November 2002, Week 4
November 2002, Week 3
November 2002, Week 2
November 2002, Week 1
October 2002, Week 5
October 2002, Week 4
October 2002, Week 3
October 2002, Week 2
October 2002, Week 1
September 2002, Week 5
September 2002, Week 4
September 2002, Week 3
September 2002, Week 2
September 2002, Week 1
August 2002, Week 5
August 2002, Week 4
August 2002, Week 3
August 2002, Week 2
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July 2002, Week 3
July 2002, Week 2
July 2002, Week 1
June 2002, Week 5
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June 2002, Week 2
June 2002, Week 1
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April 2002, Week 3
April 2002, Week 2
April 2002, Week 1
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March 2002, Week 4
March 2002, Week 3
March 2002, Week 1
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February 2002, Week 3
February 2002, Week 2
February 2002, Week 1
January 2002, Week 5
January 2002, Week 4
January 2002, Week 3
January 2002, Week 2
January 2002, Week 1
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December 2001, Week 4
December 2001, Week 3
December 2001, Week 2
December 2001, Week 1
November 2001, Week 5
November 2001, Week 4
November 2001, Week 3
November 2001, Week 2
November 2001, Week 1
October 2001, Week 5
October 2001, Week 4
October 2001, Week 3
October 2001, Week 2
October 2001, Week 1
September 2001, Week 5
September 2001, Week 4
September 2001, Week 3
September 2001, Week 2
September 2001, Week 1
August 2001, Week 5
August 2001, Week 4
August 2001, Week 3
August 2001, Week 2
August 2001, Week 1
July 2001, Week 5
July 2001, Week 4
July 2001, Week 3
July 2001, Week 2
July 2001, Week 1
June 2001, Week 5
June 2001, Week 4
June 2001, Week 3
June 2001, Week 2
June 2001, Week 1
May 2001, Week 5
May 2001, Week 4
May 2001, Week 3
May 2001, Week 2
May 2001, Week 1
April 2001, Week 5
April 2001, Week 4
April 2001, Week 3
April 2001, Week 2
April 2001, Week 1
March 2001, Week 5
March 2001, Week 4
March 2001, Week 3
March 2001, Week 2
March 2001, Week 1
February 2001, Week 4
February 2001, Week 3
February 2001, Week 2
February 2001, Week 1
January 2001, Week 5
January 2001, Week 4
January 2001, Week 3
January 2001, Week 2
January 2001, Week 1
December 2000, Week 5
December 2000, Week 4
December 2000, Week 3
December 2000, Week 2
December 2000, Week 1
November 2000, Week 5
November 2000, Week 4
November 2000, Week 3
November 2000, Week 2
November 2000, Week 1
October 2000, Week 5
October 2000, Week 4
October 2000, Week 3
October 2000, Week 2
October 2000, Week 1
September 2000, Week 5
September 2000, Week 4
September 2000, Week 3
September 2000, Week 2
September 2000, Week 1
August 2000, Week 5
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August 2000, Week 3
August 2000, Week 2
August 2000, Week 1
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July 2000, Week 3
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June 2000, Week 3
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June 2000, Week 1
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May 2000, Week 4
May 2000, Week 3
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April 2000, Week 5
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April 2000, Week 3
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April 2000, Week 1
March 2000, Week 5
March 2000, Week 4
March 2000, Week 3
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March 2000, Week 1
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February 2000, Week 4
February 2000, Week 3
February 2000, Week 2
February 2000, Week 1
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December 1999, Week 5
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December 1999, Week 3
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April 1999, Week 3
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April 1999, Week 1
March 1999, Week 5
March 1999, Week 4
March 1999, Week 3
March 1999, Week 2
March 1999, Week 1
February 1999, Week 5
February 1999, Week 4
February 1999, Week 3
February 1999, Week 2
February 1999, Week 1
January 1999, Week 5
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January 1999, Week 3
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January 1999, Week 1
December 1998, Week 5
December 1998, Week 4
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June 1998, Week 3
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June 1998, Week 1
May 1998, Week 5
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May 1998, Week 3
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May 1998, Week 1
April 1998, Week 5
April 1998, Week 4
April 1998, Week 3
April 1998, Week 2
April 1998, Week 1
March 1998, Week 5
March 1998, Week 4
March 1998, Week 3
March 1998, Week 2
March 1998, Week 1
February 1998, Week 5
February 1998, Week 4
February 1998, Week 3
February 1998, Week 2
February 1998, Week 1
January 1998, Week 5
January 1998, Week 4
January 1998, Week 3
January 1998, Week 2
January 1998, Week 1
December 1997, Week 5
December 1997, Week 4
December 1997, Week 3
December 1997, Week 2
December 1997, Week 1
November 1997, Week 5
November 1997, Week 4
November 1997, Week 3
November 1997, Week 2
November 1997, Week 1
October 1997, Week 5
October 1997, Week 4
October 1997, Week 3
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October 1997, Week 1
September 1997, Week 5
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September 1997, Week 1
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July 1997, Week 1
June 1997, Week 5
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June 1997, Week 1
May 1997, Week 5
May 1997, Week 4
May 1997, Week 3
May 1997, Week 2
May 1997, Week 1
April 1997, Week 5
April 1997, Week 4
April 1997, Week 3
April 1997, Week 2
April 1997, Week 1
March 1997, Week 5
March 1997, Week 4
March 1997, Week 3
March 1997, Week 2
March 1997, Week 1
February 1997, Week 5
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February 1997, Week 3
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February 1997, Week 1

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