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AUXLANG  August 2009, Week 3

AUXLANG August 2009, Week 3

Subject:

Re: with a little help from my friends...

From:

Olivier Simon <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

International Auxiliary Languages <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Fri, 21 Aug 2009 11:54:39 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (86 lines)

Re-sellamat Jim ! 


On Thu, 20 Aug 2009 15:01:54 -0400, Jim Henry <[log in to unmask]> 
wrote:

>2009/8/20 Olivier Simon <[log in to unmask]>:
>
>> But, despite my explanations, this Esperantist finds my choices "subjective"
>> and thinks that Esperanto is better because based on a consensus. (see 
the
>
>I'm not quite sure what he means by that, but I can readily see a
>sense in which what he's saying makes sense: all the words in E-o that
>weren't coined by Zamenhof himself before 1887 are ones that somebody
>(possibly Zamenhof himself in the period 1887-1917, usually somebody
>else) proposed, and then a large subset of other Esperanto speakers
>liked the form of and continued using.  I.e., any word that became
>part of the living language and not just a nonce-neologism is one that
>found a consensus in favor of its usage.  The same is true of
>grammatical and semantic structures that have emerged since 1887, and
>arguably of the basic pre-1887 core of the language too, in another
>sense.
>
>
>> Now, I really wonder what to answer to him since his criticisms are not
>> supported by any example and it's hard to see what is better in Esperanto
>> (... ).
>
>I can think of two major things that are better in Esperanto
>(phonology and orthography) than in Sambahsa, but your correspondent
>doesn't mention them.   He seems, as best as I can understand him
>without knowing the context of the earlier conversation, to be arguing
>pragmatically: that Esperanto has a million-odd speakers, that such a
>speaker community shouldn't be discarded in favor of a new language
>unless the new language is unambiguously much better than E-o, and
>that Sambahsa is not such an unambiguous improvement as to justify
>dropping Esperanto and supporting Sambahsa.
>
>
Merci pour ces explications. En réalité, le problème est que le débat ne 
concerne pas que le Sambahsa, mais les autres auxlangs. 


>
>> Si on se restreint à l'Union Européenne - qui est l'objet du forum - ,
>
>Dans quel forum se passe ce dèbat?
>
http://forums.ec.europa.eu/debateeurope/viewtopic.php?p=183019#183019

(attention, le forum est fermé en août; c'est pourquoi je communique par 
courriel avec cet espérantiste). 
 
>
>> point précis. Je le répète, je ne défends pas une opposition de 
principe à toute
>> réforme ou à tout choix autre que l'espéranto, mais je pose comme 
préalable
>> que le niveau de consensus ne doit pas diminuer.
>
>> En pratique, cela veut dire que s'il y a, par exemple, un million 
d'espérantistes,
>> il faut avoir des garanties que la nouvelle langue soit capable d'en attirer
>> davantage.
>
>Il a raison: si une nouvelle langue auxiliaire ne peut pas alloger
>plus des adepts qu'ésperanto, à quoi la proposer?
>
C'est un cercle vicieux. L'Espéranto a bien commencé avec Zamenhof seul 
dans son coin. De plus, si l'on se base sur des critères purement numériques, 
alors je me passe des auxlangs; les langues naturelles que je connais me 
permettent largement de communiquer à travers le monde, et même 
l'espéranto ne me sert à rien du tout. 



>> Varmege en Bordozo kiel en Loreno (?).
>
>Varmegas ankaÅ­ en norda Georgio.
>
Hodiaux pluvegas en Loreno. La vetero sxangxegas ! 

Olivier
http://sambahsa.pbworks.com/ 

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