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CONLANG Home

CONLANG Home

CONLANG  August 2009, Week 3

CONLANG August 2009, Week 3

Subject:

Re: A posteriori conlangs

From:

R A Brown <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 20 Aug 2009 08:26:03 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (139 lines)

Jim Henry wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 5:59 AM, Peter 
> Bleackley<[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> I'm thinking of creating an a posteriori conlang, based
>> on Koine Greek with French sound changes. I'm wondering
>> what to do with sounds like χ θ and υ that didn't exist
>> in Vulgar Latin (as far as I know, Latin only had these
>> 
> 
> I'm not specially knowledgeable about historical
> linguistics, but my guess is that it might partly depend
> on whether your language is spoken by descendants of
> Greek speakers who migrated to Gaul, or by natives of
> Gaul who adopted the language of Greek traders or 
> conquerors or missionaries or whatever, or something
> else.

Yes - a good point. The way things will develop will depend 
upon the alternate history involved. There were in fact 
Greek speaking communities in Gaul, e.g. Marseilles 
(Massilia) was originally a Greek colony. But these were all 
in the south (i.e. what later became the Provençal speaking 
area). The sound changes of French are derived from the 
Francien of north Gaul.

If some Greek speakers had migrated to the north of Gaul, 
then we'd expect a greater Greek influence in the 
development of the language. If, however, it was a question 
of natives acquiring Koine (as, e.g. in the TAKE alternate 
history scenario) then we'd have, I guess, a similar sort of 
development as that given in this world to Vulgar Latin.

In the latter case we can, I think, safely assume that the 
of the aspirated voiceless plosives of Greek would have 
become fricatives as happened in all varieties of Greek 
*here* (it would appear that Peter assumes the same as he 
doesn't mention φ). Of the other two fricatives:

θ [T] - this might have merged with /s/ or with /f/ (the 
latter is attested in graffiti at Pompeii. But it is worth 
noting that [T] did occur in Old French, cf. English "faith" 
<-- Old French: _foit_ [fwET]. But AFAIK it occurred only in 
final position and fell silent in the 11th century. However, 
in the TAKE scenario, one might have expected a wider 
occurrence of [T] in the 'western Hellenic' languages. In 
this case we would expect intervocalic to have become [D], a 
sound which also occurred in the oldest French, and then to 
have fallen silent as [D] did in the 11th century, e.g. 
matre --> *madre --> *m&Dr@ --> mE:r --> me:R (mère). This 
would leave only syllable initial [T] - either this remains 
in a 'north Gallic Helleniclang' or it merges with either 
/s/ or /f/.

χ [x] - all later varieties of Greek show some degree of 
palatalization of velars before front vowels; therefore, we 
can safely assume the same sort of development in a 'north 
Gallic Greek' as occurred with Vulgar Latin, i.e. that [k] 
before /e/ or /i/ became [ts] --> [s], and [k] before /a/ 
became [tS] --> [S]; [g] before /e/, /i/ and /a/ became [dZ] 
--> [Z]. This leaves me in no doubt that [x] before /e/, /i/ 
and /a/ would have become [S]. As for the [x] which remains:
- in intervocalic position, I'd expect it to become [G] and 
then to fall silent;
- in syllable final position, I'd expect it to behave much 
like the sound our forbears in England spelled {gh}, i.e. in 
certain dialects it became /f/ after back vowels, but 
generally it become vocalized and formed a diphthong with 
the preceding vowel. In other words, vowel+[x] would 
generally have given rise to diphthongs to join the rich 
array of diphthongs (and triphthongs) that we find in Old 
French *here*. Having formed diphthongs, these diphthongs 
would then presumably have monophthongized in the same sort 
of way as Old French diphthongs have given way to single 
vowels in modern French;
- in word initial position, or syllable initial after 
certain consonants, the sound would presumably have 
remained. It is likely to have merged with the newly 
acquired [h] in words borrowed from Germanic, which in 
French *here* maintained itself until the 16th century when 
it fell silent. In a Gallic-Hellenic scenario, the sound may 
well have survived past the 16th century.

As for υ, the initial reaction is "What's the problem? [y] 
existed in Old French and is common enough in modern 
French!" But, of course, the French [y] is derived from 
Latin /u:/ so we would expect Greek ου [u:] to have become 
[y]. In VL the sound seems to have merged with /u/ in the 
earliest period and /i/ at a later day. But in the TAKE 
scenario, there'd have been no Vulgar Latin. My guess is 
that both υ and ου would have fallen together as [y] - 
except, of course, where υ was the second element of a 
diphthong. In Vulgar Latin _au_ maintained itself as a 
diphthong, but tended to be monophthongized in the later 
Romancelangs. Similarly, I would expect αυ ευ ηυ to have 
survived as diphthongs - [aw], [ew], [e:w] respectively - in 
the earliest period and then to have given way to simple 
vowels - ευ ηυ would, I guess, be a front rounded sound like 
German ö.

But the treatment of vowels is rather complicated; the 
Classical Latin quantitative differences had given way to 
qualitative difference in Vulgar Latin, thus:
CL      VL
/i:/    /i/
/i/     /I/
/e:/    /e/
/e/     /E/
/a(:)/  /a/
/o/     /O/
/o:/    /o/
/u/     /U/
/u:/    /u/

In western Proto-Romancelangs, /I/ and /e/ fell together as 
/e/ and similarly /U/ and /o/ fell together as /o/.

In Old French the vowels develop differently according to:
- whether they are stressed or unstressed,
- and whether they are followed by either [j] or a nasal or 
by a syllable final [l] and, indeed, in the case of stressed 
vowels, whether the syllable itself was blocked or not.

The stressed vowels also developed differently if the 
consonant before them had been palatalized.

I would expect a similar complicated situation to have 
existed in north Gallic Helleniclang.

Have fun   ;)

-- 
Ray
==================================
http://www.carolandray.plus.com
==================================
Nid rhy hen neb i ddysgu.
There's none too old to learn.
[WELSH PROVERB]

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December 1998, Week 5
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