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CONLANG  August 2009, Week 3

CONLANG August 2009, Week 3

Subject:

Re: Naming days of the week

From:

"Mark J. Reed" <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 20 Aug 2009 08:59:37 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (93 lines)

Hm. Colors of the rainbow are culturally neutral but inherently
ordered - either red or violet will be considered the first day,
depending on which way you go.

That's a tough requirement.  The current scheme based on ancient
planets fits the bill pretty well, honestly - the order is not obvious
(based as it is on stepping by 24s around the list in its original
order), so neither is the starting point (though I guess in any list
including the Sun, it will tend to jump to first place...).

On 8/20/09, R A Brown <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> R A Brown wrote:
> [snip]
>>
>> Maybe so - but Sunday = 'first day' has three millennia of tradition
>> behind it
>
> Ooops - I was thinking of 3 millennia BCE! I should've
> written _five_ millennia, which is even longer tradition. I
> find the ancient Sumerians were naming the days after the
> seven "planets" visible to the naked eye. Of course
> anciently, "planet" meant a heavenly that wandered about and
> didn't remain in a fixed position vis_a_vis the others, i.e.
> it included the sun & moon.
>
>> and does have religious significance for many peoples. In my
>> book,
>
> An even among those for whom the seven day week has a
> religious significance, there are differences of numbering.
> Some number simply 1 to 7 from Sunday to Saturday. Others
> names them as 'day of worship' (Lord's Day, Assembly Day or
> whatever) and then 1st day (after worship), 2nd day (after
> worship) etc. This is clearly the origin of the Swahili
> system where Friday is _ijuma_ (from Arabic word for
> 'meeting, assembly') and Saturday is juma-1, Sunday juma-2
> etc. But we also come across some Christian traditions that
> do something similar.
>
>> an auxlang should attempt to be culturally neutral - at least I
>> wish Piashi to be that.
>
> Which means the more I look into the matter, the more I want
> to avoid number. The ISO standard is AIUI a standard is
> concerned with the representation of dates and times in data
> elements and interchange formats; it is not meant to be a
> diktat to be used in every circumstance by everyone in the
> world.
>
> I want to have a system that allows for counting from Monday
> for business & industry, if required, but also allows for
> counting from Sunday for traditionalists and, indeed, from
> any other day (e.g. Friday) if a person or certain groups of
> people so wish.
>
> [snip]
>>
>> Although "sun, moon, fire, water, wood, metal, earth" are not quite so
>> easy to remember as 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6 - I don't think remembering
>> those seven is exactly difficult - no more difficult, surely, than
>> remembering  Sun-, Mon-, Tues-, Wednes-, Thurs-, Fri- and Satur-   ;)
>>
>> Not that Piashi will necessarily adopt the Japanese/ 'alternate lojban'
>> system - but it won't be numbering them.
>
> Yes, I discover that the Japanese in fact got this system
> from the Chinese. The only remnant of this earlier system in
> Chinese is the name for Sunday; the rest are now numbered.
>
> But is taking a set of names derived from Sino-Japanese
> "five elements" + sun & moon going to be culturally neutral?
>
> I need a set of seven which is not specific to any cultural
> group and which doesn't automatically suggest 'a first'. Oh
> dear! I do like making things difficult - that's been the
> recurrent problem with briefscript/Piashi for several
> decades  ;)
>
> --
> Ray
> ==================================
> http://www.carolandray.plus.com
> ==================================
> Nid rhy hen neb i ddysgu.
> There's none too old to learn.
> [WELSH PROVERB]
>

-- 
Sent from my mobile device

Mark J. Reed <[log in to unmask]>

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