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CONLANG  August 2009, Week 3

CONLANG August 2009, Week 3

Subject:

Re: Possible origins for aspiration

From:

Edgard Bikelis <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Tue, 18 Aug 2009 02:28:59 -0300

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (91 lines)

On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 8:20 PM, Eric Christopherson <[log in to unmask]>wrote:

> On Aug 17, 2009, at 2:38 PM, Edgard Bikelis wrote:
>
>  Oops...
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 4:36 PM, Edgard Bikelis <[log in to unmask]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>  Hi all!
>>>
>>> I have a proto-language without aspirated consonants, and I need to get
>>> them, but how? The language has P T K voiceless and voiced, and I want to
>>> have a sanskrit-like result, with voiceless aspirate and murmured voiced
>>> consonants. In english it's conditioned by position, and only with
>>> voiceless
>>> occlusives, but I need them to be everywhere.
>>>
>>
> I have a few ideas.
>
> 1. As you wrote below, you could derive aspirates from consonant + /h/, or
> /h/ + consonant; the /h/ itself could come from a similar sound, like /x/ or
> /s/.


Yep, that is the uneventful option, the last relief to my desperation ; ).

>
>
> 2. You could have voiceless vowels, and have them develop into aspiration +
> voiced vowel (or voiced vowel + preaspiration). For example, /ki_0/ >
> /k_hi/.
>
> Voiceless vowels, in turn, could develop from voiced ones in certain
> positions, like between two voiceless consonants, or after a voiceless
> consonant at the end of an utterance. Caveats: high vowels are more likely
> to be devoiced than lower ones, and systems with pitch accent or tone (ISTR)
> do not distinguish pitch or tone in voiceless vowels. Also, since voiceless
> vowels usually occur adjacent to voiceless consonants, this wouldn't help
> you develop murmured consonants, unless there was some further change in
> some consonants.


That's very clever, thank you! I will read more about these kinds of vowels.
I see that if I whisper, every occlusive gets aspiration, a very good start.

4. You could have extensive borrowing from and mixing with languages which
> do have an aspiration contrast. I think that's thought to be responsible for
> many of the voiceless aspirates in Indic (although some instances do have
> plausible IE etymologies).


But from which language? Dravidian languages doesn't have aspirated
consonants. I (almost) remember sthu:ra- from *stH2uro-, the laryngeal
giving aspiration, then mora to the vowel by metathesis.

>
>
>  Can a vowel interfere (1), or
>>> I will need some other consonant to get it (2)? The first option sounds
>>> much
>>> more elegant to me.
>>>
>>> (1)
>>> tVr > ? > thVr
>>> rVd > ? > rVdh
>>>
>>
>>
>> rather:
>>
>> tVra > ? > tHVr
>> radV > ? > radH
>>
>
> I'm not sure of the reason for the development of aspiration here. Which
> vowels condition it?


That is the question...


> (That I don't see how the vowels condition aspiration here is not
> necessarily a bad thing. Sometimes certain sounds condition other sounds,
> but without any known motivation; one example I remember is that Avestan
> /ax/ becomes /aNx/.)


Edgard.

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