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CONLANG  September 2009, Week 2

CONLANG September 2009, Week 2

Subject:

Re: Writing systems

From:

Daniel Demski <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:09:15 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (84 lines)

On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 2:36 PM, Gary Shannon <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 10:29 AM, Daniel Demski <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>>
>> A LOTEP based system or a topologically based one would not be
>> appropriate except when those features are the ones readers and
>> writers consider graphemic. Since topology is not graphemic in today's
>> writing, it can be varied pretty freely: I don't care if my <a>
>> connects all the way and I add closed loops onto <g>'s tail, and I
>> have two topologically different versions of <p>. However I have a
>> professor who I'm convinced sees the topology of 2 as the main
>> graphemic feature: there is always a little curl at the top and at the
>> joint in his handwriting, but he feels free to stretch the letter out
>> or leave off most of the bottom bar. His question marks appear to be
>> the same graph, and he will write a big red question mark over an
>> assignment as little more than a more or less straight line over the
>> whole sheet with a little curl at the top and bottom.
>
> The intention behind the LOTEP system was not to describe
> idiosyncratic handwriting of a single language, but to broadly
> classify FORMAL character forms across a wide range of writing system.
> By formal character forms I mean standardized fonts, formal
> calligraphy, monumental inscriptions, etc., but not the casual
> scribblings of a shopping list or alley wall graffiti.
>
> Any letter form or character can be made ambiguous either deliberately
> or by being careless or sloppy (e.g., failure to close what is "meant
> to be" a closed loop). A classic example is two crossed lines, "ABC"
> written vertically and "12 13 14" written horizontally, where the "13"
> and the "B" are the same glyph read differently depending on the
> context. The FORMAL "B" and the FORMAL "13" could not be confused,
> however, and it is those shapes that LOTEP seeks to classify.
>
> In cases where no formal examples are available (e.g. Linear A, Linear
> B, Rongorongo) different instances of the same character (or what are
> presumed to be the same character) have to be compared and contrasted
> to arrive at a best guess of what a formal version might look like.
> Clearly, two people studying the same text might end up classifying a
> given character differently because of inherent ambiguities, but in
> such cases a given character could be assigned multiple classification
> numbers and cross referenced.
>
> In order to describe casual writing in a specific single language it
> would be necessary to collect a variety of glyphs which are accepted
> by a native speaker as mutually interchangeable and produce the LOTEP
> number of each. That collection of LOTEP numbers would then represent
> a list of acceptable alternate forms of a given formal glyph. Thus,
> one could look up the LOTEP number for a round-top Roman "A" with a
> horizontal line that extends beyond both verticals and find that in
> Roman letter forms it is considered synonymous with a pointed "A"
> where the horizontal like ends on the verticals. Those two might,
> however, be considered to be distinct letters in some other system of
> writing, just as "U" and "V" might be considered the same letter in
> some alphabets, but distinct letters in other alphabets.
>
> In such a case, the letter "U" and the letter "V" would have different
> classification numbers because they are different shapes, but any
> writing system that considered them equivalent would include mention
> of that equivalence in its inventory of character glyphs. Similarly, a
> curly-topped "2" or a "7" with a horizontal cross bar would be listed
> as acceptable variant forms in the glyph inventory of that writing
> system.
>
> --gary
>

Yes, this could work in many cases. But what about a writing system
where the formal character is, say, a picture of an eagle, essentially
made of more strokes the more carefully it's drawn?

Or what if an orthography doesn't contrast for number of strokes? I do
not know if there is any real world example ("ANADEW"-- what is with
the "Except Worse"?), but I was playing with a script where any letter
could have arbitrarily many strokes. For example one letter could be
written as + or * etc. The asterisk actually can be written with 5, 6
or 8 spokes IME, but that wouldn't be too difficult to deal with-
especially since the formal version probably is 6- 3 strokes I mean.

Actually I suppose this could be written 00*11, since this character
would be one even joint with no loops but many end points. * meaning
'nongraphemic'. However maybe better would be 00M11 with M meaning
Many, since the formal version may well be both written and read as
having too many lines to quickly count.

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