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CONLANG  September 2009, Week 3

CONLANG September 2009, Week 3

Subject:

Re: OT: learning to say [r]

From:

"<deinx nxtxr>" <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Tue, 15 Sep 2009 14:59:34 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (59 lines)

Mark J. Reed wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 12:04 PM, <deinx nxtxr>
> <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> Does he have a Spanish speaker present to mimick?
> 
> At home there's just me.  Fortunately, I have a pretty good
> accent for a gringo (was once mistaken for a Cuban).  I can
> certainly [r:::]oll my a[r:::]s with the best of 'em. :)
> 
> Outside of home, he's got his Spanish teacher, of course, as well
> as his best friend's father (the best friend is not himself that 
> interested in the whole Spanish thing, apparently).  And possibly
> the family of our new neighbors, who have a girl his age who
> rides the bus with him.

I'm in the process of trying to become fluent in Spanish too.  I
have to say /r/ is a big issue for me.  I can make the trill if I
sit an try to make just a trill, but it doesn't come out when trying
to use it in a word where it's surrounded by other phonemes.  /4/ is
not much of a problem but it's technically supposed to be pronounced
[r] in the intial position but I still end up with [4] or sometimes
some other rhotic sound like an uvular trill, or maybe a [4]
coarticulated with some other rhotic sound I know.


> I know, but [r] is essentially a [4] placed on autorepeat, so I
> figure it'd be a good starting point for initial [r].

Yeah, but it a very fast autorepeat.  I'm sure it takes some practice.


>> One answer is to consider that he's 5 and it's a sound that
>> comes late even for L1 speakers of languages that have it.
> 
> See, that I didn't know.  I know that e.g. [T] comes late for
> English speakers, but my knowledge of developmental L1 Spanish is
> practically nil.
> 
> So that's part of my question, is whether or not it's even worth 
> worrying about yet.  I just don't want him to develop habits that
> will be harder to correct later.

Any child with access to a native that he can hear on a regular 
basis to mimick is going to be on the right track assuming he sticks 
with it and has enough ongoing contact.   I never learned anything 
beyond a few dirty words as a child, but I heard enough Spanish to 
know what the phonemes are supposed to sound like.  /r/ is the only 
consonant I really have trouble with, and I'm not sure it's really 
much of a barrier to being understood.


FYI: SAP doesn't work where I live so I rely on Internet streams to 
practice Spanish.  Canal 13(http://streaming.entelchile.net/canal13) 
is the one I use the most.  Caveat: This is Chileno!  It's spoken 
very quickly and tends to elide a lot of consonants, especially 
final /s/ and the /d/ in the participle endings (-ado/-ada -> 
[ao]/[a:]).  The news programs hoever tend to stick to a more 
standardized variety.

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