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CONLANG  September 2009, Week 3

CONLANG September 2009, Week 3

Subject:

Re: OT: learning to say [r]

From:

Matthew Turnbull <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 17 Sep 2009 10:48:46 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (57 lines)

Yes, I know that it's a very local, phenomenon, which is why I wonder if I
got it from scottish english or from franšais manitobain ou quebecois. I
wasn't taught how to pronounce french mind you, I assimilated it from the
surrounding speakers at circa 5-7 years of age, very, very late to learn a
"foriegn" phonology, but I picked most of it up right, except for the trill,
which I would consistantly apply a [r] and sometimes [R] but not
consistantly until I learned the difference in university one, and then I
started to consciously emmulate the uvular fricative as a rhotic, I still
have trouble not using the apical trill, and therefore figure that perhaps
one of my immersion teachers (all of whom spoke french, mostly a L1) may
have come from a part of Quebec where [r] is the predominate pronunciation
and my language centers (or whatever) decided it would be easier to use an
allophone of a phone I recognise ([r]) then a completly different phoneme,
like the uvular consonants.
A note on the quality of the French "instruction" we recieved - i was not
informed that -ent as a third person present verb affix was pronounced as
[E~] until grade 10, after 11 years of being taught French, no one had told
me it was not [E~t] in not pre-vocalic position.

On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 2:21 AM, Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets <tsela.cg@
gmail.com> wrote:

> 2009/9/16 Matthew Turnbull <[log in to unmask]>
>
> > same thing here, I picked up the trill from french ( I think)
>
>
> That's be difficult, unless you learned French in Marseille or any other
> place in the Provence, where some people do have an alveolar trill as
> rhotic
> consonant. However, in most French spoken forms the rhotic is an uvular
> fricative or approximant. In Paris and surroundings it can also be an
> uvular
> trill (╔dith Piaf had a very strong one), but my experience is that that
> accent is dying out.
>
> French spoken with an alveolar trill is a very local phenomenon. I can't
> imagine foreigners being taught French that way.
>
>
> > and the tap
> > from english, but I still can't make a tap in other than medial position
> > without difficulty, whereas I can make a trill wherever I want to.
> >
> >
> I have no problems pronouncing both the alveolar trill and the alveolar tap
> in any position nowadays. But in terms of recognising them I tend to mix
> them up except in medial position, where they are easiest to distinguish,
> at
> least to me.
> --
> Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets.
>
> http://christophoronomicon.blogspot.com/
> http://www.christophoronomicon.nl/
>

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