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CONLANG  September 2009, Week 3

CONLANG September 2009, Week 3

Subject:

Re: OT: learning to say [r]

From:

Eugene Oh <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Fri, 18 Sep 2009 13:59:52 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (92 lines)

Quibble:
Je tiens
Tu tiens
Il tient

Eugene

2009/9/18 Matthew Turnbull <[log in to unmask]>

> oh, hold on yeah your right, I dunno where I pulled E~ from :|. Most likely
> I had a bad verb in mind (or no verb in mind) when I wrote that down, but
> now that my head is on straight (and thank-you for putting it back on ), I
> have to ask : Is is always silent, or is it still considered silent in
> verbs
> like tenir?
>
> je tien
> tu tiens
> il tien
> nous tenons
> vous tenez
> ils tiennent [tjEn] <- is it the "nn" or the "e(nt)" that de-nasalise the
> vowel and manifest the /n/?
>
> On Fri, Sep 18, 2009 at 5:33 AM, Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets <tsela.cg@
> gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > 2009/9/17 Matthew Turnbull <[log in to unmask]>
> >
> > > A note on the quality of the French "instruction" we recieved - i was
> not
> > > informed that -ent as a third person present verb affix was pronounced
> as
> > > [E~] until grade 10, after 11 years of being taught French, no one had
> > told
> > > me it was not [E~t] in not pre-vocalic position.
> > >
> > >
> > Eh, excuse me, but [E~] for -ent? (I take it it's the third person plural
> > present suffix you mean). I'm sorry to have to confuse you even more, but
> > that suffix is silent in French! And as far as I know, it's true also in
> > Quebec (except maybe in Joual, but I'm not familiar with that
> > dialect/language, and it's certainly not something you would learn in
> > Standard French education). Here are a few present conjugations with
> > pronunciation to show you what I mean:
> >
> > aimer [E'me]: to love
> > j'aime ['ZEm]: I love
> > tu aimes/t'aimes [ty'Em/'tEm]: you love (singular)
> > il aime [i'lEm]: he loves
> > nous aimons/on aime [nuzE'mO~/O~'nEm]: we love
> > vous aimez [vuzE'me]: you love (plural)
> > ils aiment [il'zEm]: they love
> >
> > vivre ['vivR]: to live
> > je vis [Z@'vi]: I live
> > tu vis [ty'vi]: you live (singular)
> > il vit [il'vi]: he lives
> > nous vivons/on vit [nuvi'vO~/O~vi]: we live
> > vous vivez [vuvi've]: you live (plural)
> > ils vivent [il'viv]: they live
> >
> > finir [fi'niR]: to finish
> > je finis [Z@fi'ni]: I finish
> > tu finis [tyfi'ni]: you finish (singular)
> > il finit [ilfi'ni]: he finishes
> > nous finissons/on finit [nufini'sO~/O~fi'ni]: we finish
> > vous finissez [vufini'se]: you finish (plural)
> > ils finissent [ilfi'nis]: they finish
> >
> > Really, are you sure you were taught to pronounce that -ent as [E~]? That
> > just doesn't sound French to me! The fact that it's completely silent is
> > one
> > of the staples of French orthography, one of the things children all over
> > French-speaking areas have the most difficulties over when learning to
> > write!
> >
> > Moreover, there is normally never liaison between verbs and what follows
> > them, unless what follows them is a post-posed subject pronoun (in
> > questions, for instance). So, while the -ent can be pronounced [t] in
> some
> > situations, it's certainly not in every pre-vocalic context.
> >
> > Really, I question indeed the "quality" of your French education...
> > --
> > Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets.
> >
> > http://christophoronomicon.blogspot.com/
> > http://www.christophoronomicon.nl/
> >
>

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