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CONLANG  September 2009, Week 3

CONLANG September 2009, Week 3

Subject:

Re: Three conlangs for the price of two

From:

Basilius <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Mon, 21 Sep 2009 12:34:35 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (93 lines)

On Fri, 11 Sep 2009 21:33:44 +0200, Arnt Richard Johansen wrote:

[...]
>I've read your explanation, and even though I didn't understand all of it,
it seems clear that the proposed change is necessary. So you have my
explicit permission to replace [y] with [i] in Deuterocolumnese (nice name!).

Thank you! This means a lot more freedom in interpretation, which may prove 
essential, as it seems.

In fact, my lengthy reasonings were an attempt to find *some* naturalistic 
explanation for the emergence of your original system. But if they eventually 
worked as an ex contrario proof, it's even more conspicuous :)

>Some suggestions for possible cognates:
>
>suck   hlip    [sip]
>burn   ndal    [cɒʎ]
>enemy  uunrag  [ʎɒɟ] (apheresis in Deuterocolumnese)
>sound  nul     [ɲis]
>believe (sincerely or well-foundedly)  hin     [cim]
>friend teem    [cɯmɯɟ] (apocope in Protocolumnese)
>follow tsee    [ciɟ]

All of these are on my list too, except 'enemy' (see below). But my own
favorite 
coincidence with the two wordlists is definitely _tebet_ :: _simɒs_ 'wind' :)

One trouble with 'enemy' is that r :: ʎ (which is what makes the item look
like a 
potential cognate pair) appears to be a very bad correspondence. That is, with 
27 occurrences of /r/ and 20 of /ʎ/ in a wordlist of 90 items, just 2
instances of 
co-occurrence seem to mean that the correlation is negative. 

Another problem is that long vowels in Column 1 language (c1) are rare. This may
mean that they reflect  sequences of phonemes rather than single phonemes of 
the protolanguage, and therefore just apheresis won't be enough. (OTOH luckily 
we know nothing of the morphologies, compounding patterns etc., so we could 
posit just _-rag_ as the matching part.) 

The reasons like the above are of the same sort as one can use in actual 
reconstruction,  but they work with our pseudo-reconstruction as well in the 
sense that the correspondences in 'enemy' do not help to save other potential 
cognate pairs from being rejected as not interpretable in terms of regular 
(recurrent) correspondences. 

So IMO 'enemy' should be posponed until we have some basic set of common 
sound changes; after that we'll see if it can be explained by introducing some 
special sound changes conditioned by rare environments.

* * *

Well, from what I've said one can rightly infer that I made some rough 
calculations with potential consonant matches... 

First of all, they seem to show that (surprise!) the two wordlists do *not* 
represent two related languages :) 

However, I've never done such calculations (with random wordlists) before,
so it 
is sort of instructive to see what specifically is wrong. Interestingly,
there is no 
shortage of promising potential consonant correspondences. However, the list of 
best correspondences looks a bit odd, to say the least. Just for example, 
_suum_ :: _mis_  'home' comes out as a very promising match - *without* the 
hypothesis about metathesis: both "s :: m" and "m :: s" are statistically much 
better correspondences than either "s :: s" or "m :: m"... 

Yet I think that my original estimate (about two dozens of cognate pairs 
connected with moderately complex set of sound correspondences) was not too 
optimistic. I am trying to apply some more hacks, and again it is
interesting to 
see what types of data manipulation can earmark a pseudo-reconstruction :) 

A few examples of good matches (in the current revised/hacked version) on the 
top of my list (c2 transcriptions simplified, matching parts of stems given in 
caps): 

bavLASHEE - LICAn 'interesting thing'
DU - CAJ 'and'
taWYM - LAM 'purple'
WIIS -  PICul 'stirrup'
HLIP - SIP 'suck'
DEGEL - CINas 'boot'

Also, I have a question to Thomas: I am tempted to re-interprete _ts_ as an 
affricate (there seem to be no other stop-plus-fricative clusters permitted
in both 
onsets and codas). Does it conflict with the original idea of c1?

Basilius

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