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CONLANG Home

CONLANG Home

CONLANG  October 2009, Week 3

CONLANG October 2009, Week 3

Subject:

Re: Troubles with my Germanesque orthography

From:

R A Brown <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Tue, 20 Oct 2009 11:58:12 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (60 lines)

Philip Newton wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 08:39, Craig Daniel <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
[snip]
>> The
>> other affricate present is of course /pf/
> 
> Why "of course" only one other affricate? It would be more symmetric
> to have affricates at all three main POAs, i.e. to add /kx/, and
> indeed there are varieties of German (particularly in the south) which
> have that, too.

Yes, there are. I have always assumed that /kx/ is there in 
standard German is because:
- in northern German and in the standard language, initial 
/p/, /t/ and /k/ are aspirated, as they are in modern English.
- the difference between [k_h] and [kx] is not great enough.

But IIRC the southern varieties do not aspirate voiceless 
plosive, hence a difference between [k] and [kx] can be 
maintained and hence /k/ and /kx/ are separate phonemes.

[snip]
> 
>> which I spell <ph>
>> (apparently one of two attested MHG spellings, alongside <pf>).
> 
> *nod* I think I've come across that, too.
> 

Interesting, many moons ago I suggested to Leo Moser that 
<ph> be given that pronunciation in his auxlang, Bahasan. He 
wanted, just like Hogben with his Interglossa, to keep 
classical spellings of roots with Latin and/or Greek 
connexions. Hence he would not follow, say, Spanish in 
respelling <th> as <t> or <ph> as <f>.

But the result was to give multiple spellings for /w/ (which 
IMHO is "not a good thing" in an auxlang), namely:
- <w> if initial or between vowels.
- zero after /k/, as /kw/ is written <q>.
- <h> after <t> and <p>
- <u> after any other consonant

I suggested to him that if he must retain <th> and <ph>, the 
<h> represent a homoiorganic aspirate, i.e. <th> = [ts] and 
<ph> = [pf], but to no avail.

I don't recall whether I also suggested that Greek X (chi) 
be spelled <kh> and pronounced [kx], since in Bahasan, 
although <c> is always /k/, <ch> is [tS].

-- 
Ray
==================================
http://www.carolandray.plus.com
==================================
Nid rhy hen neb i ddysgu.
There's none too old to learn.
[WELSH PROVERB]

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