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CONLANG Home

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CONLANG  October 2009, Week 5

CONLANG October 2009, Week 5

Subject:

Re: Conlang Names

From:

Benct Philip Jonsson <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sat, 31 Oct 2009 17:02:11 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (157 lines)

 > Ämne: Re: [CONLANG] Conlang Names
 > Från: Henrik Theiling
 > Datum: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 03:17:19 +0100
 > Till: [log in to unmask]
 >
 > Hi!
 >
 > Benct Philip Jonsson writes:
 > > >...
 > > > MERCURII DIES 'Wednesday' used to be _melcordí_ ...
 >
 > Ha, the perfect opportunity to run another word through the sound
 > shifter of Tirkunan. And I am sometimes surprised about the
result.
 > This time, too, as MERCURII shifts to _mbrekla_.
 >
 > I did not yet add that to the official lexicon.

Are you sure there isn't something wrong with the
sound shifter there? The stressed vowel of MERCURII
seems to disappear!

FWIW it wouldn't surprise me if Terkunan did with
the weekdays like Portuguese and numbered them:

English Portuguese
---------- --------------
Sunday domingo
Monday segunda-feira
Tuesday terça-feira
Wednesday quarta-feira
Thursday quinta-feira
Friday sexta-feira
Saturday sábado

Where _feira_ < FERIA

I of course have to ponder if the weekday names in
pre-Rhodrese were tight enough compounds at the
time of umlaut so that the /i/ of DIES caused
umlaut in the preceding syllable:

Without umlaut With regular uml. With analogical uml.
-------------- ------------------ ---------------------
dimenghe/-che = =
lundí leundí =
mardí merdí =
meocordí meocherdí mieocherdi
jaudí jeudí =
verdí virdí =
saudí seudí =

Analogical umlaut means that umlaut spreads
morphologically to all syllables of a word rather
than affecting just the syllable before an /i/.
Strictly speaking analogical umlaut should of
course not happen in words where umlaut doesn't
function as a morphological process.

I can imagine the jokes about Tuesday being a
sh*t day and Friday being a green day!

(Perhaps I *should* have */nr/ > /ndr/ (and
*/lr/ > /ldr/ but I like PONERE > _porre_
and SOLVERE > _sorre_!)

 > Ämne: Re: [CONLANG] Conlang Names
 > Från: Henrik Theiling
 > Datum: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 03:36:51 +0100
 > Till: [log in to unmask]

 > _Þrjótrunn_ < FRIGORITERRANUS (with a little creative
help: it is
 > now an irregular sound shift, after a
bug in the
 > sound shifter was corrected...)
 >

Dare I ask what the regular form would be?

 > _Tirkunan_ < TARRACONENSEM minus -ENSEM plus -ANUM
 > Also with a little creative help,
because the sound
 > shifts changed, but the language name
didn't.
 >
 > **Henrik

Ah, creative help! The mention of _**melcordí_
gave me a flash of inspiration today how to
explain that RHODANU becomes _Rhuodre_ rather than
_**Rhuorn_ or _**Rhuorre_ and RHODANENSE >
_rhodray_ rather than _**rhornay_ or _**rhorray_,
and so be able to keep the current name of the
Rhodrese language.

Since the language anyway has dissimilation of
laterals within a word r...r > l...r and l...l >
r...l it makes sense if intervocalic /d/ fails to
become /4/ in the structure *rVdV,[^1] so even if
VADIMUS becomes *Ba4mu then RHODANUS becomes
*/rO:dnu/ due to the initial /r/, with */dn/ later
becoming /dr/ and then again the initial /r/ stops
*/rO:dr@/ from becoming **/rO:r@/ when */pa:dr@/ becomes
*/pa:[log in to unmask]

True /dr/ will still be very infrequent, but I
want to keep *PARE 'pair' distinct from 'father'
by having 'father' keep or get an /-@/ > /-I/ in
both the singular and the plural. This will also
help to keep 'rocks' distinct from 'feet':

- PETRA > _pierre_,
- PETRAS > _pirre_,
- PEDE >_pier_,
- PEDES > _pir_.

While this would make 'fathers' and 'rock'
identical that ambiguity will be resolved by the articles:

- _un/el piarre_ 'a/the father'
- _eun/li pierre_ '(some)/the fathers'
- _(u)ne/la pierre_ 'a/the rock'
- _eun/li pirre_ '(some)/the rocks'

(Synchronically _eun_ doesn't mean 'some' anymore,
but is just really an indefinite plural article.
The real expression for 'some rocks' is _aoceun
pirre_. Nouns without any article are usually
uncountable mass nouns (_addeç sial_ 'add salt').
Of course the definite article is used in general
statements concerning all members of a class,
where Germanic languages would use an indefinite
plural: _li pirre son deur_ '(the) rocks are hard'.)

[^1]: The liquid dissimilation will probably not
apply if the first /r/ follows an obstruent, so
that FRATRE > _friarre_ and not _**fliarre_. BTW
_friarre_ and _suorre_ mean 'monk' and 'nun' --
'brother' and 'sister' are _fradel_ and _sorel_.
Moreover _suorre_ is really from the nominative,
or rather vocative, SOROR rather than the
accusative SOROREM; _**soraur_ doesn't exist. As
forms of address for church members _piarre,
friarre, suorre_ become _Piar (Pr.), Friar (Fr.),
Suor_. Cf. _serre_ 'gentleman' vs. _Ser (Sr.)_
'Mr.' vs. _segnaur_ 'lord'.

/BP 8^)>
--
Benct Philip Jonsson -- melroch atte melroch dotte se
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  "C'est en vain que nos Josués littéraires crient
  à la langue de s'arrêter; les langues ni le soleil
  ne s'arrêtent plus. Le jour où elles se *fixent*,
  c'est qu'elles meurent." (Victor Hugo)

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