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CONLANG  October 2009, Week 5

CONLANG October 2009, Week 5

Subject:

Re: Latin vowels

From:

R A Brown <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sat, 31 Oct 2009 11:05:26 +0000

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (112 lines)

Muke Tever wrote:
> R A Brown <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
[snip]
>
> True, though by the second century AD at latest the grammarians were
> certainly remarking on the qualitative difference between the values of
> the vowels when short and when lengthened.

I've little doubt that by the 2nd cent such things were
becoming more noticeable. I think of the 1st centuries BC/AD
as the 'high' Classical period. As time went on it is clear
that changes in the spoken language were filtering through
to the written norm. Even in the Classical period, I would
expect to find a gradation of styles from the 'purist'
language of a Ciceronian speech through to the language of
peasants in the market place. Indeed, Cicero's letters show
a rather different level from the language of his speeches
and 'philosophic' works.

I have no doubt that Caesar did not speak to the common
soldier in the same style in which he wrote "De Bello
Gallico" etc.

> (Allen also points to
> early hesitation between |e| and |i| in inscriptions, like _trebibus_
> for _tribibus_; I don't agree with all his examples though, since some
> of them [like _Philumina_ for Φιλουμένη] have the same outcome as the
> ordinary Latin vowel *reduction* processes would produce, like _redigo_
> from _ago_.)

Agreed - tho _trebibis_ would suggest a conflation of
stressed [I] and [e:] in unblocked syllables.

[snip]
>
> Well, the spurious diphthong ει [e:] had certainly been raised to [i:]
> by that point in some (Νειλος = Nilus) but not in all environments
> (Αλεξανρεια = Alexandrea) so I assume a distinction at least in some
> places may have been possible (though perhaps not likely).

Nor of course _Aeneas_ <-- Αινειας. Indeed, ει before a
vowel is generally rendered as [e:] in Roman borrowings. It
may be that ει had shifted only to [I:] by this period,
which he Romans heard differently before consonants and
vowels. Or more likely, I think, the raising of ει [e:] to
[i:] had not happened to same extent before vowels where,
maybe, it was more like [I:].

>>> Now, according to Allen's _Vox Latina_, there _was_ a distinction
>>> between two types of long E in ante-classical Latin--and some vulgar
>>> Latin of the classical period, which classical writers labelled as
>>> "rustic"--but one of them (which had previously been written as |ei|)
>>> had merged with /i:/ in Classical Latin.
>>
>> Umm - I should like to see the evidence that Allen gives. It's true
>> that pre-classical |ei| is just plain |i| in the Classical language,
>> e.g. deico --> dico /di:ko:/ "I say". But I was under the impression
>> that |ei| actually meant [ej] in the pre-classical language, where
>> in medial syllables earlier -ai, -ei, -oi all became -ei.
>
> It was a diphthong to begin with; to show it was becoming a monophthong
> by the 3rd century BC he says in inscriptions it begins to be spelled as
> |e| (_ploirume_, _dioue_ for _plurimi_, _Iovi_) and original /e:/ was
> sometimes spelled |ei|, as _decreiuit_ for _decrevit_, while spellings
> of /i:/ were still distinct.

Looks more to me like confusion and hesitation during a
period where the diphthong [ej] was shifting towards [i:].

> He also says there is metrical evidence in Plautus and Terence where the
> genitive singular of -ius words was -i /i:/ but the nominative plural
> was -ii; the first contracted because the -i of the ending merged with
> the -i- of the stem, but the second did not because, at the time, the
> ending was still /e:/.

I'd like to see more specific evidence. The genitive -ius
remained ambiguous in Classical verse, i.e. it could be
scanned /ius/ or /i:us/. Spellings of nominative plurals in
-ii were normal throughout the Classical period (and
beyond), but no one suggests the final -i was still
pronounced /e/.

> He also points to those rustic Latin examples, where _vella_ and _speca_
> are found for _villa_ and _spica_[1],

Dialect difference?

> and some places where the /e:/
> variant survived into Romance (citing, e.g., how French _voisin_ would
> be from a Latin _vecinus_ rather than _vicinus_.)

I doubt that. The Vulgar Latin of north Gaul does seem to
have had some peculiarities that were local to itself. I
suspect _voisin_ has more to do with a local pronunciation
in which the first _i_ was short, i.e. [wI'ki:nUs], rather
than any survival in Gaul of sound changes happening in
pre-classical Latin. It is thought by some that this was
dissimilation, i.e. avoidance of [i:] in contiguous syllables.

I think the broad pattern of vocalic change in Latin is
fairly obvious, but the fine details are sometimes open to
interpretation.

--
Ray
==================================
http://www.carolandray.plus.com
==================================
Nid rhy hen neb i ddysgu.
There's none too old to learn.
[WELSH PROVERB]

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