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CONLANG  November 2009, Week 2

CONLANG November 2009, Week 2

Subject:

Re: Language Evolution Experiment (WAS: Re: bbc horizon)

From:

John Campbell <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Wed, 11 Nov 2009 15:48:20 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (78 lines)

This idea sounds great! If you ever actually do this, count me in.

On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 8:55 PM, Gary Shannon <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 2:38 PM, And Rosta <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> > Mike is referring to an experiment by Simon Kirkby reported here:
> >
> > <http://www.pnas.org/content/105/31/10681.abstract>
> >
> > [contains link to full pdf download]
> >
> > I agree it's of interest to conlangers.
> >
> > --And.
>
> That is a fascinating paper! I have tried several times to set up some
> kind of online situation where a language could evolve by being used,
> but I've always failed to get the kind of results I was hoping for. I
> think the biggest problem in my web pages has been that all
> participants were consciously aware that they were participating in
> creating a language, which immediately turns what I wished had been a
> natural process into an explicitly artificial process.
>
> To quote from the paper referenced above: "Note that this process is
> cumulative and is not considered to arise from the explicit intentions
> of the individuals involved. Rather, this type of cultural evolution
> is an ‘‘invisible hand’’ process leading to phenomena that are the
> result of human action but are not intentional artifacts."
>
> But when the "explicit intentions of the individuals involved" is to
> create a new language, especially when the individuals involved are
> conlangers, then the "invisible hand" is trumped by the very visible
> hand of the many designers lobbying for the specific design features
> they are trying to impose on the language.
>
> Now suppose that instead of strings describing moving colored shapes
> we used a set of randomly generated "translations" to a dozen very
> simple sentences like "The boy sees a bird." Those sample translations
> could be given to the next participant in the chain along with another
> dozen simple sentences for which there is no translation. ("The girl
> throws the ball.") The participant would then provide his or her best
> guess as to the translation of the new sentences and then send the
> result back to the moderator.
>
> The moderator would then forward a dozen translated specimens to the
> next participant along with a dozen more untranslated sentences. The
> translated sentences would consist of six from the immediately
> previous generation and six from the generation that preceded that
> one. The dozen untranslated sentences would come from a pool of
> perhaps a hundred unique sentences.
>
> In that way each participant would, when their turn came up, get a
> dozen specimen English sentences with their translation into
> Conlangish and a dozen English sentences with no translation into
> Conlangish. The translations would not necessarily include
> interlinears, so the participant might be free to deduce the analysis
> of the sentences into morphemes from the structure of the specimens.
> Or perhaps one or two of the dozen sentences might have interlinears
> so that generalizations could be made from the notated specimens.
>
> Most importantly, the document sent to the participant would contain
> NO description of grammar or morphology, and NO lexicon. That
> information MUST be deduced by each participant from the specimen
> sentences.
>
> In any case, with ten or fifteen participants, and after 2 or 3
> complete rounds we would have anywhere from 20 to 45 generations of
> evolution of a non-designed conlang. And with sentences being rotated
> in and out of the sample, we could compare the translation of any
> single sentence (E.g. "The boy throws a ball.") among several distant
> generations to see how the language has evolved.
>
> Just a half-baked idea.
>
> --gary
>

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