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AUXLANG  December 2009, Week 4

AUXLANG December 2009, Week 4

Subject:

Re: Passive of becoming particle

From:

steve rice <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

International Auxiliary Languages <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Wed, 23 Dec 2009 11:15:47 -0800

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (37 lines)

--- On Wed, 12/23/09, James Chandler <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> Steve scrit:
> 
> >On the other hand, I'm not sure about the distinction
> between true passive and passive of becoming in Inlis.
> Interglossa, the basis of Inlis, didn't support it as such,
> though I suppose it could be done.
> 
> I happen to have my copy of Interglossa handy, so I looked
> up GENE (pp. 181-182) and it seems to have multi-uses, one
> of which looks very similar to a passive-of-becoming (Novial
> BLI).  Another important use is as an inchoative (Ido
> -ESK).  In some ways this word seems overworked, but
> that is not uncommon in Interglossa.

Gene is both the regular passive and the passive of becoming. To some extent (as one of my examples showed) habe + amplifier could equal a regular passive, but not always. Gene isn't usually inchoative as such, at least no more than date, tracte, and perde; that generally requires proto.
 
> >may be justified by a reference to those verbs that are
> used both transitively and intransitively: chanjat,
> komensat, finat may mean both `that has been changed, begun,
> ended' and in analogy with these we may use morit = `dead'
> (that has died), li falat arbre the fallen tree, li pasat
> tempe (li pasatum) the past.
> 
> I'm not sure I've ever read this explanation carefully
> before, but now I do it seems a little odd.  I wonder
> if J was actually basing this on English as his reference to
> mixed verbs seems a bit of a stretch.
> 
Not just English: the Romance languages do it too. But I do find the Eo/Ido method preferable. This is another way in which the two aren't "European" on close inspection.

Steve


      

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