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CONLANG  December 2009, Week 4

CONLANG December 2009, Week 4

Subject:

Re: "Bogolang" (was Re: Theadisch, a German-flavored romlang)

From:

R A Brown <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Tue, 22 Dec 2009 09:00:10 +0000

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (78 lines)

Jörg Rhiemeier wrote:
> Hallo!
> 
> On Mon, 21 Dec 2009 08:52:15 +0000, R A Brown wrote:
[snip]
>> While clearly Welsh has been one of the influences in the 
>> creation of Sindarin, Tolkien has not used Welsh in the way 
>> that AIUI creators of "bogolangs" do - in Tolkien's hands it 
>> is just one of the ingredients used to flavor an entirely 
>> different language.
> 
> Yes.  Sindarin owes quite much to Welsh, but it is no way a "bogolang".
> Just taking the sound changes of one language and applying them to
> another language (and be that an a priori conlang) would probably have
> been below the level of quality this master was striving to attain.

It would indeed have been.

[snip]
>> [snip]
>>> BTW, I hate the word "bogolang". We already have the terms artlang,
>>> altlang, a priori and a posteriori--why do we need another term.
>> Yes, "bogolang" suggests the whole thing is 'bogus', i.e. 
>> there is something non-serious/ fraudulent about its creation.
> 
> Yes.  I wouldn't call a "bogolang" fraudulent, even if it is a "short
> cut" of some sort, 

No, indeed - which is why I find the term unfortunate. Yet 
it seems that it would be useful to have a term for a 
language created by applying the diachronic changes of 
language X to language Y.

> enabling the less creative to make a plasible-
> looking conlang from two pre-existing languages.  While on one hand,
> it is unlikely that language Y undergoes the same sound changes as
> language X did in another place and/or time, it *could* have happened
> in one of the infinitely many possible worlds, and the experiment
> which Andrew carried out with Brithenig was a perfectly legitimate
> one, 

Interesting experimented - but unlikely to have occurred 
IMO. If British Vulgar Latin had survived and given rise to 
a Romance language it seems to me implausible that such a 
language would have developed independently of continental 
Romance just a few miles away over the Chanel. Also, Gallic 
Romance had the same or very similar 'Celtic substrate" as a 
British Romance would have had and Saxons would probably 
have made similar incursions to Franks over on the 
continent. I would have thought that the older stages of a 
British Romance would have shown greater affinity to Old 
French than Brithenig does, even if the two languages 
developed differently thereafter.


> and not really "bogus" in the sense of "fraudulent"!  It is like
> those alternative histories where something went a different way
> several centuries ago, and yet many people and events of later times
> do occur in recognizable form.  

    :)

If any history of WHATL gets more detailed treatment, I 
would hope that it differs more and more from history *here* 
as one moves away from the starting point, so to speak (I 
must remove the reference to Gregorios XIII - tho a similar 
calendar reform is still likely to have occurred at some 
time or other).

-- 
Ray
==================================
http://www.carolandray.plus.com
==================================
Nid rhy hen neb i ddysgu.
There's none too old to learn.
[WELSH PROVERB]

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September 2002, Week 1
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