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CONLANG Home

CONLANG Home

CONLANG  December 2009, Week 4

CONLANG December 2009, Week 4

Subject:

Re: The Na'vi's English?

From:

Eric Christopherson <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 24 Dec 2009 01:16:06 -0600

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (57 lines)

On Dec 24, 2009, at 12:20 AM, David Peterson wrote:

> Eric, can you think of any examples?  My brother-in-law and I can't think of
> any at all off-hand, but I have a theory if you know of some.

I know of /filast_?\i:n/ "Palestine". I can't think of any others right now, but I know I've seen them. Actually, maybe I'm thinking of Hebrew, which at least uses the letters which once stood for emphatics in borrowings.

This languagehat post <http://www.languagehat.com/archives/001419.php> contents that /s_?\ira:t_?\/ is from Latin _strata_, and there is a comment that cites /?\askar/ < _exercitus" and /qas_?\r/ from _castrum_. I'm not sure if those etymologies are correct, however.

> 
> Specifically, you see this kind of distribution in at least some Arabic dialects
> with vowels in the presence of emphatic consonants:
> 
> /ka/ > [ka]
> /qa/ > [qA]
> /ta/ > [ta]
> /t_?\a/ > [t_?\A]
> 
> Etc.  (The alternations with waw and yaa are a bit less predictable.  Sometimes
> you can have /i/ show up as [e] and /u/ as [o], or you get a kind of diphthong
> so that /i/ becomes [@j] and /u/ becomes [@w].)
> 
> So if a word were being borrowed from a language with a distinctive
> type of vowel,
> it might get borrowed in with an emphatic consonant (if one is available) to
> produce a similar vowel quality in the Arabic loan.

That's similar to the theory (to which I was introduced by David Salo, although I don't know if he was the first to come up with it) that the emphatic /5/ (velarized l) in _?ilah_ "god" and its derivatives in _-llah_ (such as _Allah_) comes from the Aramaic /ela/; according to that theory, the Aramaic /e/ was salient enough that the neighboring consonant was velarized in order to give it a mid quality, although it is phonemically /i/.

> 
> That's just a thought.  Again, I couldn't think up any examples of loans with an
> emphatic off the top of my head...
> 
> -David
> 
> On Wed, Dec 23, 2009 at 9:38 PM, Eric Christopherson <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> On Dec 23, 2009, at 10:36 PM, Alex Fink wrote:
>> 
>>> On Wed, 23 Dec 2009 23:21:34 -0500, Parker Glynn-Adey
>>> <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Hello,
>>>> 
>>>> I don't have the know how to assess this one myself, so I put it to you, oh
>>>> sagacious phoneticians of CONLANG. How does the english accent of the Na'vi
>>>> in Avatar line up with the phonotactics of their language? In other words,
>>>> would people who spoke N'avi natively speak English the way they do on
>>>> screen?
>>> 
>>> I didn't pay as much attention to that as I might've, but I did notice one
>>> particularly strong [k_>] in place of an English initial /k/, which seems a
>>> bad adaptation given that Na'vi has /k/ as well, and aspiration and
>>> ejectivity are fairly antithetical gestures.
>> 
>> Good point... but what is the deal with certain borrowed consonants in Arabic being pronounced as emphatics? Might that be a similar precedent?
>> 

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