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CONLANG  January 2010, Week 4

CONLANG January 2010, Week 4

Subject:

Re: TECH: IPA Font vs. Unicode?

From:

John Cowan <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 28 Jan 2010 21:31:51 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (93 lines)

Welfound, conlangers all.  And Rosta brought me in on this one.

> David Peterson <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >The IPA character [a] is different from the Roman character "a".
> >The Unicode character for both, though, is identical. This could
> >lead to big problems--especially if this is changed (which it ought
> >to be) in the future.

It won't be.  Other than font-kludge systems like X-SAMPA/CXS, there
is no way of representing IPA electronically except Unicode's way,
and stability considerations eliminate any refactoring of the existing
approach.  Not gonna happen.

> David Peterson, On 28/01/2010 20:32:
> >I thought this was the whole point of Unicode. Notice that there's
> >little difference between the Roman "a" and the Cyrillic "a", yet
> >the Cyrillic "a" gets its own codepoint. Just how different does
> >"different" have to be?

The classic answer (which actually predates Unicode) is that when you
search for Latin "CAB" you expect to find one thing, and when you search
for Cyrillic "CAB" you expect to find something quite different (which
transliterates as "SAV" in Latin).  That said, it took years to get the
Unicode powers that be to accept that Q/q and W/w in Cyrillic Kurdish
were genuine Cyrillic letters and not just borrowings from Latin, and
therefore need their own encoding.

> >Another problem (aside from the caps) is italicization. Not all
> >characters italicize the same way. Most IPA characters don't.
> >Also notice that if you italicize "a" in many fonts you get the
> >closed variant, which is an entirely different character in IPA.

Capitalization is even worse: for the most part, caps are stylistic in
Latin (excepting cases like "polish" and "Polish", and German nouns,
and so on), whereas IPA text must never be capitalized.

There are other places where the character/glyph distinction breaks down
somewhat: Fraser script looks like Latin caps plus upside-down Latin caps,
but is encoded separately, primarily because Fraser script users don't
recognize the full font range that Latin caps can take -- they use only
a highly stylized sans-serif variety.

It's interesting to note that Unicode unifies all Latin-like IPA
characters with the corresponding Latin characters, but does *not*
unify Greek-like IPA characters if they have a distinct (serifed)
typographical style from real Greek.  In particular, a-z, ae-ligature,
c-cedilla, eth, o-stroke, h-strong, eng, and oe-ligature are unified,
as are beta, theta, lambda, and chi.  However, alpha, gamma, epsilon,
upsilon, phi, and the obsolete iota have their own Unicode IPA characters.

And Rosta scripsit:

> Mark and Garth are right about Unicode characters, of course, but I agree 
> with David that IPA <a> and roman <a> are not the same -- e.g. IPA <a> must 
> be double-decker and roman <a> needn't be. More generally, I would maintain 
> that characters are defined relative to a particular graphological system 
> (by which I mean both scripts and systems like IPA), and that the 
> (system-specific) definition includes both form (e.g. alloglyphic range) 
> and meaning.

I think that's true in general, and I think Unicode accepts that in
general.  The question is, what is a graphological system, and what is
just a special use of a graphological system?

> I wish Unicode had adopted a system in which character codes 
> consisted of a first part that identifies the graphological system and a 
> second part that identifies the character within that system. I think such 
> a scheme would have been far freer from controversies, disputes, analytical 
> solecisms, etc., much more straightforwardly extensible, much less 
> cumbersome, and so on.

IMHO it would have been far worse -- in fact, ISO 2022, which predates
Unicode and is built on just this idea, *is* far worse.  There would have
been endless disputes about disunification.  For example, is Polish 
(a-acute) the same as Spanish ?  Typographically, no; the kreska
accent is much steeper and stubbier than the acute accent, but Unicode
(following ISO 8859) unifies the distinction away.  The result is that
the distinction is represented, if at all, by using different fonts for
fine Spanish (or Romance) and fine Polish typography.  In the end we
would have one or several graphological systems per language,

I pushed very hard for Unicode not to encode Samaritan and Phoenician
and other 22-character abjads separately from Hebrew, but the fact
that they look different enough to be illegible prevailed over the
structural identity of all such systems (well, up to consonants at least).
So it goes.  Can't win 'em all.

-- 
Values of beeta will give rise to dom!          John Cowan
(5th/6th edition 'mv' said this if you tried    http://www.ccil.org/~cowan
to rename '.' or '..' entries; see              [log in to unmask]
http://cm.bell-labs.com/cm/cs/who/dmr/odd.html)

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