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CONLANG  January 2010, Week 4

CONLANG January 2010, Week 4

Subject:

Re: Compounding?

From:

Larry Sulky <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sat, 23 Jan 2010 14:20:39 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (75 lines)

On Sat, Jan 23, 2010 at 11:38 AM, Jim Henry <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> On Sat, Jan 23, 2010 at 9:46 AM, Larry Sulky <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > I'd like to piggyback with a question of my own: in your conlangs, do you
> > distinguish by form and/or terminology between productive compounding and
> > non-productive compounding?
>
> In gj-zym-byn I distinguish between productive and non-productive
> derivational affixes.  I'm not sure how to describe compounding
> proceesses in terms general enough to say that this one is productive
> and that one isn't productive.
>

> > Let's take Esperanto as an example. The affix "-in" assigns femininity to
> a
> > word that would otherwise carry a masculine meaning. This is a productive
> > process -- you know just what you'll get if you do it, and if you undo
> it,
> > you know just what you'll get back to.
>
> Right; but I'd describe this as derivation rather than compounding.
>
>
My general sense about compounding (which is not the sense I use in Qakwan,
BTW -- I should really go back and clean that up), has been that compounding
is not productive and that derivation (that's the concept I was looking for,
thanks) is. I don't share Dana's preference that a compound should be as
transparent as possible; it's enough that the components of a compound have
some relationship to what the compound identifies. For example, I'm
comfortable with "compact disc" (though I would prefer it hyphenated) even
though the two components are nowhere near sufficient for someone to deduce
what one is.


>
> > Now, Esperanto texts that I've read also suggest that "-et" is a
> productive
> > affix -- you can apply it anywhere and know what you'll get as a result.
> But
> > I don't find it so, because these self-same texts insist that "dometo" is
> > not merely a small house, but a cottage or a cabin. They try to establish
>
> Well, don't believe everything you read.    "Dometo" can indeed be
> just a small house, not necessarily qualitatively different from other
> houses.
>
> Then... what's the point of having the word "dometo"? Why don't we just say
"domo malgranda"? Economy?

---SNIP---


> > What do people think? Does "productive compounding" mean that you
> > unambiguously know what the resultant meaning is, or only that you have
> some
> > sense but that the full meaning depends on established usage?
>
> I'd say that a productive process, whether compounding or derivation,
> is one that anybody can apply ad-hoc and expect to produce a word that
> will be understandable in context for any other fluent speaker of the
> language.   "-et" doesn't cease to be productive just because some of
> its uses have idiomatic senses.   A non-productive process is one that
> is no longer used, or is used so rarely that other speakers are not
> likely to readily understand or accept new words formed by said
> process.
>
> Oh! That's a really useful operational definition, Jim, thanks. I hadn't
been taking account of the roles of context or acceptance. With this in
mind, I could have Qakwan use its established compounding mechanism to a
greater extent; up to now, I've been preferring blended (portmanteau) words.

---SNIP---

---larry

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