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AUXLANG Home

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AUXLANG  March 2010, Week 5

AUXLANG March 2010, Week 5

Subject:

Re: Auxlangs in multimedia art forms (spinoff thread)

From:

"<deinx nxtxr>" <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

International Auxiliary Languages <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Tue, 30 Mar 2010 02:01:25 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (95 lines)

steve rice wrote:

>>> I'm not talking about getting a visa and staying for a
>> few months.
>>> The goal is an artificial diglossia in which you use
>> an auxlang to
>>> communicate with the locals, and you can understand
>> when they use
>>> their native language.
>> I wasn't talking about staying months either but going native means
>> at least attempting to fit in with the locals.  That doesn't
>> involve your own language or an auxlang, but learning *theirs*.
> 
> I never mentioned "going native"; this is therefore a strawman
> argument.
> 
> What I am talking about is the type of tourist who likes to get as
> close as possible to local life. He won't necessarily want to learn
> the language, though an auxlang may be acceptable. But he wants to
> avoid the usual tourist route. This will distance him from the
> English track. His destination needn't be out in the jungle
> somewhere; it need only be away from the usual tourist stops.

Well getting close to the locals life means mingling with the locals and 
avoiding the other gringos.  Okay so I find a nice quiet little beach 
town on the coast of Thailand.  Nobody there speaks anything that even 
remotely resembles any conauxlang.  The auxlang is useless!


> (Obviously this will change frequently, which is why Fodors and
> others put out new books every year. This is also why the Auxlang
> Tourist's Guide could turn an actual buck.)

There's no such thing as an auxlang tourist except maybe for Esperanto 
conferences, and people who intentionally seek out other Esperantists to 
meet up with.  Beyond that, you just aren't going to find *anyone* who 
will speak your language.


> As I said, the linguistic goal is diglossia: the natives adjust to a
> dialect, you learn an auxlang that can serve you practically in
> several countries--and you do get to adjust a bit to the locals as
> well. This is classical neutrality: a level playing field.

Well, English will serve me in just about every country in the world. 
It's done me well in the 40 countries on the 6 continents I've visited, 
and yet I have *never* seen a so much green star displayed anywhere to 
even indicate an E-o presence.  I'm sure you can find a lot remote 
villages where English isn't present, but guess what?  Your favorite 
auxlang isn't going to be there either.


> As there is no call for English, there is no reason for
> English-speakers (native or not) to get involved, at least until the
> place attracts the regular tourist crowd. If there is any "language
> for hire," it will involve the auxlang.

That's not the reality.  The reality is that English can be found in 
just about every major city or tourist area, and even a lot of minor 
tourist areas.  If you want a good example of the situation, take a 
random look at hotel websites around the world.  You'll quickly find 
that are large portion of them will offer the site in English as well as 
the local language, and may also offer one or two more languages 
depending on the demographic that they cater to.


> Nor does it work to conjure English out of thin air. To say that it
> is already everywhere is to say that there is no language problem,
> and I doubt anyone here would buy that. English arises where it is
> needed; I am presenting a scenario where it is not.

Not *everywhere* but unless you are in the backwoods of Uzbekistan or 
someplace like that you are very likely to hear find enough English to 
get by, at least among people that are accustomed to doing business with 
foreigners though it is true many may only know enough to get by in 
their particular business.  That's still enough to suit their needs.


>>> I gather from some if these
>>>> posts you haven't done a whole lot of traveling.
>>> They beat the tendency out of me during high school
>> basketball.
> 
> [Answered with drivel that indicates complete incomprehension. I was
> answering patronizing rudeness with a pun:
> http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/traveling#Noun I suppose I ought to
> gloss some of these...]

No I'm just letting you know I have first-hand experience in this area 
as a traveler so I'm relating the real situation, not some hypothetical 
ideal.  People aren't going to jump onto the auxlang bandwagon just 
because it sounds like a good idea.  They will do it if they find it 
useful and it's only useful when there significant numbers of others who 
also use it.

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