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CONLANG  May 2010, Week 1

CONLANG May 2010, Week 1

Subject:

Re: Ergative-marked agreement markers?

From:

Alex Fink <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sat, 1 May 2010 18:22:07 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (59 lines)

On Wed, 28 Apr 2010 12:38:16 -0500, Eric Christopherson <[log in to unmask]>
wrote:

>I'm working on a diachronic conlang, the parent of which is ergative (in
some respects at least). I just reread the chapter on grammatical relations
in _Describing morphosyntax_, and was reminded of two things:
>
>1. All "ergative" languages are split ergative in some respect.
>2. In split ergative languages, agreement markers are most likely to show
nominative-accusative alignment.
>
>This is troubling: the protolanguage doesn't have agreement markers. I've
decided to attach pronouns to verbs and have them evolve into agreement
markers. The problem is that traditionally I have wanted to attach just the
transitive agent (i.e. ergative) pronouns; so agreement would be shown only
on transitive verbs. Is that unrealistic?

Checking Dixon's _Ergativity_ (which I don't really know my way around),
there is an example of this attested, but it has other unusual features of
note, suggesting to me that this pattern might have a hard time arising
directly (without help from sound change, e.g.) from a more "normal" ground
state. Grist for the mill here in any case.

The Nilotic language Päri at least has the agreement pattern which this
would result in, A being marked on the verb "in one type of construction"
but S/O never. That construction appears to be when the A is fronted for
topicalisation; the unmarked orders are SV, OVA.

That's about all that's said on the point of agreement. But Päri also has
an interesting split in case marking: in most types of clauses, it's
ergative with the S/O unmarked and the A carrying a suffix //-i_L//, but in
imperatives and some subordinate clauses it's a (typologically rare) marked
nominative system, i.e. the S takes //-i_L// too. Comparative evidence and
general trends in which clause types retain archaisms suggest that the
marked nominative is the older system; further, the original word order may
have been VS, VAO. T. Andersen suggests that the ergative may have
originated in the context of a habitual (pragmatic?) fronting of S and O
that changed the basic word order: when S was fronted it lost its marked
nominative suffix, becoming zero-marked like O. I wonder whether something
similar mightn't have happened, or happen, to an earlier nom-acc agreement
system as well.

>Also, assuming that system is somewhat plausible, would it be realistic to
say that the primordial ergative pronouns would actually have the ergative
*case marker* on them? And that the case marker would leave some trace on
the eventual agreement markers?

I don't see why not. What rationale would there be for dropping it?

>Alas, the specification of the protolanguage is so open that it merely
lists the ergative marker as a morpheme, but doesn't describe at all where
it is used.

That's unfortunate. What's the protolanguage? I suspect from your word
choice it's also a conlang. (In which case, cool, I love me some
collaborative diachronic projects.) Can you not press its creator for better?

Alex

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