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CONLANG  May 2010, Week 1

CONLANG May 2010, Week 1

Subject:

Re: OT?: Glottal Stop Reform!!!!

From:

R A Brown <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Wed, 5 May 2010 07:23:02 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (67 lines)

Peter Bleackley wrote:
> staving R A Brown:
> 
>>>>
>>> To British English speakers, glo'al stops sound uneducated.
>>
>> While this was certainly true in the 1950s and 1960s, I don't think it's
>> universally true today.
>>
>> I've become more more aware since, I think the 1980s, and certainly
>> since the 1990s of more and more *clearly educated speakers*, both on
>> radio and television and among people I meet in everyday life who use
>> the glo'al stop as an allophone of /t/ in medial and final positions.
>> Personally, I still don't like it - but that's a prejudice of my
>> upbringing. I would be very surprised if none of the Brits on this list
>> in generations younger me did not in fact regularly use the glo'al stop
>> in everyday speech.
>>
> 
> At least some of those speakers are clearly affecting the speech of the 
> less well educated so as to appear cool. I'm sure that Jonathan Ross 
> (for example) is quite capable of pronouncing his medial /t/s if he so 
> chooses.

I'm sure even the poorly educated _can_ also pronounce [t] 
between vowels - and probably would do so if imitating 
(either in mockery or by being pretentious) the speech of a 
"toff."

What you write may well be true of Jonathan Ross - but I 
wasn't thinking of him (he's not a person I'd normally be 
listening to), but to younger people I've heard who are 
clearly educated but retain this feature.

I was thinking also of colleagues I've worked with who were 
quite certainly educated and whose speech generally 
exhibited what one would expect from educated people - but 
they did (and presumably still do) pronounce medial and 
final /t/ as [?].

It does seem to me to be partly regional and also a 
generational thing. Maybe I'm more sensitive to it than many 
others because, being brought up in south east England in 
the 1940s & 50s, it was deemed to very much a mark of the 
"uneducated" and associated particularly with 'low-class 
Londoners.'

When I moved to Newport in South Wales in 1968, I discovered 
it was not confined to London!  I had to get used to, for 
example, _party_ being pronounce [p_h&:?i] or even, in the 
dockland areas of Cardiff as [p_hE:?i]. But such 
pronunciations were definitely "uneducated."

As I wrote, its mainly in the last 20 to 30 years I've 
noticed a gradual spread of this use of the glottal stop 
among peoples whom one could not otherwise classify as 
uneducated.

-- 
Ray
==================================
http://www.carolandray.plus.com
==================================
Nid rhy hen neb i ddysgu.
There's none too old to learn.
[WELSH PROVERB]

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