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CONLANG  May 2010, Week 2

CONLANG May 2010, Week 2

Subject:

Re: Creaky voice < syllable-final voiced stop?

From:

Eric Christopherson <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Tue, 11 May 2010 23:03:38 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (76 lines)

On May 11, 2010, at 3:14 PM, Alex Fink wrote:

> On Tue, 11 May 2010 13:18:02 -0500, Eric Christopherson <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
> 
>> On May 11, 2010, at 6:08 AM, David McCann wrote:
>> 
>>> On Tue, 2010-05-11 at 02:00 -0500, Eric Christopherson wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Thanks for the replies, everyone. Now I'm trying to find an old message
> that was talking about tones coming from final /?/.
>>> 
>>> That may have been me! Tonal contrasts from the loss of final consonants
>>> only seem to come from /?/ and /h/, although these may represent earlier
>>> oral stops and continuants. Each can go two ways.
>>> 
>>> /?/ usually leads to a creaky voice register that becomes a high tone,
>>> but it can also leave a low tone if it was a simple arrest that didn't
>>> colour the vowel. Thus the Athbascan suffix -taʔ gives Chipewyan -tó but
>>> Sarcee -tò. In Asia, the high tone is usual.
>> 
>> Cool. I don't want to make it sound like I don't believe you, but since you
> and Alex seem to disagree on whether a plain final /?/ yields high or low
> tone, do either of you have a source? (The sources I've found that talk
> about the effect of final glottal stops on tone all seem to presuppose that
> the glottal stop creakyizes the vowel.)
> 
> Wikipedia has said various things on tonogenesis over the years -- I think
> that's where I got my version of the statement earlier -- but what it
> currently says is
> | Kingston (2005) provides a phonetic explanation for the opposite 
> | development of tone based on the two different ways of producing 
> | glottalized consonants with either (a) tense voice on the preceding 
> | vowel, which tends to produce a high F0, or (b) creaky voice, which 
> | tends to produce a low F0. 
> That's from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tone#Origin .  The cited paper is
> http://www.people.umass.edu/jkingstn/web%20page/research/athabaskan%20tonogenesis%20camera%20ready%20final%2021%20october%2004.pdf

OK, thanks. I see there's some terminological disagreement; WP does distinguish stiff voice (AKA tense voice) from creaky voice, but I just ran across a PDF I had ("Tonogenesis revisited: revising the model and the analysis", by Graham Thurgood; <http://www.csuchico.edu/~gthurgood/Papers/TonogenesisHarris>) in which it equates tense with creaky:

> As Mazaudon (1977:65-66) suggests, this apparent discrepancy is reconcilable if the abrupt, complete glottal closure accompanying a final glottal stop is distinguished from the less complete, less abrupt glottal
> stricture found, for example, in Burmese ‘creaky’ tone. This incomplete constriction, which results in a tense voice (sometimes termed creakiness), is usually but not always diachronically derived from a final glottal stop and resembles what is often termed vocal fry.


Oh well. WP cites Ladefoged and Maddieson, which I am inclined to trust. I think for now I will tentatively have:

V + voiceless stop > V? > V_H
V; V + voiced resonant > V_M
V + voiced stop > V_k > V_L

Of course these will evolve further.

> .
> 
> (When I say a creaky vowel and try to be otherwise unmarked about it it's
> lower pitch than a plain vowel, anyhow.  I guess I tend towards creaky and
> not tense.)
> 
>>> The voiced/voiceless contrast only seems to affect tone when it's
>>> initial (voiced > low, voiceless > high). Maintaining the contrast at
>>> the end of the word takes some effort -- think of how many languages
>>> don't do it -- so if a language weakened its final stops, the voicing
>>> contrast would probably go first, and then the resulting voiceless stops
>>> could become /?/.
> 
> I've also seen a paper which proposes categorically that this is never
> simply an effect of voicing, but that it's always due to concomitant
> breathiness.  I couldn't quite track that down again, but of interest might be
>  http://www.csuchico.edu/~gt18/Papers/Vietnamese_tonogenesis.pdf
>  http://www.haskins.yale.edu/Reprints/HL1336.pdf

Oh, I see that first one is by Graham Thurgood too. I'm currently enjoying his "A Preliminary Sketch of Phan Rang Cham"; <http://www.csuchico.edu/~gt18/Papers/cham_mar1.pdf>, in which he says the same thing. I guess that refutes the claim that PIE glottalic theory proponents make, that breathy stops don't occur in languages without aspirated stops.

> 
> Alex

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