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CONLANG  June 2010, Week 1

CONLANG June 2010, Week 1

Subject:

Re: Help with Relative Clause

From:

Eugene Oh <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Mon, 7 Jun 2010 11:23:24 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (67 lines)

In both Japanese and Korean, SOV languages, relative clauses are skipped in
favour of turning the entire clause into a participial modifier.

So instead of saying "The man who you saw yesterday ate the apple" you would
say "The you-yesterday-saw man the apple ate", and instead of "The man ate
the apple that you picked" you would say "The man the you-picked apple ate".

If you definitely want relative clauses, consider Latin.

"Vir quem vidisti heri malum edit."
man-NOM REL-ACC-m saw-2psg yest. apple-ACC ate-3psg

"Vir malum quod carpsisti edit."
man-NOM apple-ACC REL-ACC-n plucked-2psg ate-3psg

I don't know any other SOV natlangs that use relative clauses, but in my
conlang, Arithide (also SOV), I decided to avail myself of the relative
clause to broaden my stylistic options, and modelled it after the Latin.
Otherwise normal usage IMCL is with participial modifiers (is there a
technical term for them, btw?).

Eugene

2010/6/7 John Lategan <[log in to unmask]>

> Hello everyone
>
> I'm struggling with expressing relative clauses in Culmærian. I've come up
> with a system, but I'm not fully convinced that it "works".
>  My main problem is that I don't want to disrupt the word order; therefore
> I
> cannot place the Relative clause after or before the noun it modifies,
> because it'll result in a heap of confused verbs. Culmærian is a strictly
> verb- final language (SOV or OSV).
>
> Culmærian has 8 cases:
> Nominitive (agent); Accusative (patient); Dative (recipient of action or
> patient); Ablative (marks the source or origin); Instrumental (means by
> which the action is executed/ object used); Locative (used together with
> prepositions); Genetive (or possesive); Vocative.
>
> The solution Ive come up with uses another 'case', inflected upon the noun
> to indicate that it will be reused in the relative clause. I call it the
> Relative Case.
>
> eg:
> The man who you saw yesterday ate the apple.
> = manNOM-REL appleACC eat; youNOM manACC-REL yesterday-see
>
> The man ate the apple that you picked
> = manNOM appleACC-REL eat; youNOM appleACC-REL pick
>
> Could this work if, instead of repeating the 'relative-object', I replace
> it
> with "it" in the relative case?
>
> I dont want it to work because "anything can work in a conlang." Is this a
> realistic/ naturalistic system that is easy to decipher by the human brain?
>
> Thanks in advance,
> JOHN LATEGAN
>
> PS: I read about "the Accessability Hierarchy": I didn't fully understand.
> All I know is that I want to be able to express all levels of the hierarchy
> with the same clause system.
>

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