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CONLANG  June 2010, Week 2

CONLANG June 2010, Week 2

Subject:

Re: Con-culture/religion etc.--longish (was OT : atheism)

From:

Roger Mills <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 10 Jun 2010 21:55:05 -0700

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (105 lines)

--- On Thu, 6/10/10, Lars Finsen <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> Den 10. jun. 2010 kl. 13.05 skreiv
> Sai Emrys:
> 
> > I wonder what kinds of con-religions one might have.
> All those I've
> > seen are patterned very strongly after real-world
> ones. Is there
> > something within the conceptual space of what we would
> still recognize
> > as a religion, but which does not happen to exist
> currently?
> > 
> > I for one would be kinda disappointed if we found
> aliens, and it turns
> > out they're monotheists (or polytheists, or
> meditators).

Perhaps, perhaps not. We won't know until it happens....a lot !!  

In Le Quin's worlds, it seems that all the sentient/developed species were "seeded" in some way (genetic tinkering?) by humanoid space travelers from the Planet Hain. There is an episode in LHOD involving their religion, which struck me as Zen-like or maybe Tao-like. The narrator, Genly Ai (apparently a Terran, though I don't think it's certain) seems to be religion-free.  In "The Dispossessed", the communist-like society on the moon seems to have no religion, but the mother planet does (perhaps many), IIRC. The "Earth-Sea Trilogy" of course has wizardry.

It's very vague, to me, whether there is much religion in the Star Wars universe.
> 
> Well, religion is something that seems to be typically
> human, and personally I wouldn't expect it in an alien race.
> Consider the other intelligent and communicating species we
> have on this planet, like the higher apes, whales and
> octopuses. Do they show any sign of religious activity? 

We simply don't know, and at present have no way of knowing. But Chimps and Gorillas seem to mourn their dead (as do elephants). Dogs and cats seem to know when one of them, and/or their owner, is gone. That to me would suggest some sort of incipient "religious" feeling, in the broadest sense. Not sure what we might know about dolphins and whales.

And must communication be highly
> symbolic in order to develop an advanced civilisation? Real
> telepaths could possibly do without it, for example.

Unfortunately I don't know how my telepathic Kash use their ability-- is it symbolic/imagistic? verbal? perhaps some of all. When they communicate with their cousins in the wild (think Human-Chimp telepathic communication) I'm fairly certain it's symbolic/imagistic, which gets translated into words in the human's mind. As I've said before (at least on my website) this interspecies communication gives them a sense of the unity with all life, indeed with their entire environment. They're sort of like the Na'vi but without the "USB connector" :-)) Incidentally (tooting own horn) a friend of mine saw Avatar and commented to me, "They reminded me of your people." Oh happy day!!

The other developed species, the Gwr, who are not telepaths, were rather like us westerners-- exploitative of the environment, profligate petroleum users, they developed nuclears, had a sort of consumerist society. That all fell apart after their war, 750 years ago.

> It's hard to conceive of a planet with a more benign and
> stable environment than this one, but it is possible,
> perhaps. 

That's Cindu. It probably helps that it's thinly populated-- ca. 1bn people on a planet somewhat larger than Earth, 65% Kash, 35% Gwr (it used to be the other way around). Even before The Destruction the Kash (with some help from the Gwrs) had developed solar/wind/tidal/biomass energy and were not petro-dependent. Of course electicity was not as widespread as here, was and is quite expensive, and so carefully monitored/conserved. In a sense this has slowed their technological advancement, but would that be a Bad Thing for anyone, nowadays?

Inhabitants of such a place would probably never
> develop the need to seek supernatural aid against their
> nature. 

I believe you are defining my Planet Cindu :-)) Since the Gwr lost economic/cultural control of the world thanks to the decimation of their nuclear war 750 years ago, the Kash have taken over its guidance. They, as majority in the World Government, rigorously control the petro industry, have not allowed nuclear power (except the few old facilities that are still allowed to function). 

Probably they would have a moderate reproduction
> rate as well, and so would always have plenty of resources.

That also-- Kash women are only sexually fertile approx. every 3 months, for about 10 days. And multiple births (i.e. more than two) are very rare.
The Gwr have another problem-- about 20% infertile, another unknown % are genetically damaged, as a result of the nuclear fallout and lingering aftereffects. But they keep trying to repopulate....in hopes of regaining ascendancy.
> 
> Less benign and/or stable environments would perhaps induce
> a need to seek supernatural aid at some stage, but if a
> civilisation develops and the aliens learn to help
> themselves, will they still seek supernatural aid? That
> depends on their psychological makeup and the amount of
> trouble they tend to make for each other, perhaps.

Re Religion on Cindu: The Kash recognize and Ultimate/First Creator/Mind, but one who takes no further interest in its/his creation, does not guide it, does not interfere. All Nature, and every living thing, is imbued with some small portion of that Mind, which means they recognize a multiplicity of "Spirits". Some people take them seriously, many do not, but are still careful not to offend them. They don't necessarily "worship" their spirits, but there are little rituals/prayers to appease them if you happen to be involved in some way-- a forester, for ex., will ask the a tree Spirit's pardon if he is going to cut it down and ask it's help in guiding the tree to a proper fall. He might also ask the Blade Spirit to guide his saw so it doesn't bind or kick back... People like that-- farmers, sailors, airmen, craftsmen who work with natural materials-- they're the ones who still take things seriously.

Incidentally, everyone is very careful about invoking the Spirit's aid for nefarious purposes. A question of maybe not wanting what you ask for :-))

Sorry to say, Gwr religion is something that I haven't fully thought out. But I suspect there's a bunch of them, some perhaps of a redemptorist slant.

> Humans do seem to have explored just about any religious
> idea conceivable, so it would be hard to come up with any
> con-religion that isn't patterned strongly after ours.

I suspect my ideas are colored by bits of knowledge about Native American, Southeast Asian traditional beliefs, Zen, Tao, Confuscianism, but very little input from the Abrahamic side.


> Training the young to become civilised individuals is an
> important aspect of the current major religions on Earth.

Well, it's an important _ethical_ aspect of every culture IMO, never mind that it sometimes is tied in with religion of one sort or another. Many of the things that religions impose as "religious" duties-- support of the poor, no killing, no lying/adultery/covetousness, forgiveness of offenses (I won't get into "Sin") etc.-- can just as well be viewed as ethical imperatives, simply What A Decent Person Ought To Do. That would be the Kash approach.

> Hence we developed conduct rules with very strong
> punishments for breaking them. Still they don't work, and
> possibly aliens more or less intelligent than us have
> developed other means for guidance, 

I wouldn't go that far with my people. Life on Cindu is not a bed of roses. People commit murder, lie, cheat, fight, rob like everywhere else, you name it. Perhaps not quite as much, but still..... No one is perfect :-))))

> ...or perhaps their
> civilisations have developed more slowly and/or more in
> concert with their instinctive natures.

That seems to be the case on Cindu, as mentioned above.
> 
> Just some thoughts, I think it's an interesting
> discussion.

Yes, though I feel it's gone on long enough vis-a-vis the situation on Earth. More ObCL, please.....


      

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October 2002, Week 1
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August 2002, Week 1
July 2002, Week 5
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July 2002, Week 1
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April 2002, Week 5
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April 2002, Week 1
March 2002, Week 5
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March 2002, Week 3
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March 2002, Week 1
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February 2002, Week 1
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December 1998, Week 5
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