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CONLANG  June 2010, Week 2

CONLANG June 2010, Week 2

Subject:

Re: OT : atheism

From:

Matthew Boutilier <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 10 Jun 2010 03:08:59 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (106 lines)

>
> Roman soldiers were big on Mithra pretty late in the game, and that's a
> Zoroastrian deity.
>

The Zoroastrian Mithra is not the same as Mithras, around whom a Roman cult
developed.  But it's true that for the most part the Romans let the Jews -
and I suppose the Mithraics or Mithraists or what have you - exist in
peace.  They didn't get along so well with the Christians, it seems


On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 2:16 AM, Garth Wallace <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> On Wed, Jun 9, 2010 at 11:40 PM, R A Brown <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
> > Sai Emrys wrote:
> > [snip]
> >>
> >> On Wed, Jun 9, 2010 at 11:55 AM, R A Brown
> >> <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> BTW it derives from the ancient Greek adjective
> >>> _agno:stos_ = "unknowable."
> >>
> >> Is that unambiguously accurate? I.e. is it not conflated
> >> (as in this discussion) with merely "unknown"?
> >
> > It's not exactly a commonly occurring adjective. True there is an
> instance
> > in the Odyssey (1.175) where it means no more than "unknown"; but the
> more
> > common use is "unknowable, not an object of knowledge."  The inscription
> the
> > St Paul saw in Athens is IMO better translated as the "to the unknowable
> > god."
> >
> > There are also instances of the adjective being used in an _active_
> sense,
> > i.e. "ignorant of"
> >
> > But the modern way we choose to use words of ancient Greek origin does
> not
> > always relate directly to their ancient use  ;)
> >
> > =========================================================
> > <deinx nxtxr> wrote:
> >> On 6/9/10 1:41 PM, Benct Philip Jonsson wrote:
> > [snip]
> >> True, as I mentioned this before. First you really need
> >> to understand just what type of god one believes in
> >> before you can say you doubt its existence.  Would a
> >> Christian have been "atheist" to the Romans because he
> >> didn't worship the Roman gods?  Or vice versa?
> >
> > Nope, and nope.
> >
> > The Romans were very well aware that the Jews, for example, did not (and
> > would not) worship the Roman gods; but the Jews were not regarded as
> > 'atheists'.
> >
> > Christians of the time (generally) regarded the Roman gods as demons. I
> > don't think the concept of 'atheism', as we have been discussing it on
> this
> > thread, was really known in the ancient world.
> >
> > Christians got into trouble from time to time in the Roman Empire because
> > they would not subscribe to the imperial cult, i.e. were not willing to
> burn
> > incense in honor of the 'genius' (guardian spirit) of 'Roma et Augustus'
> > (Rome & the emperor). It was seen as a _political_ act of treason.
> >
> > The Empire contained a multiplicity of religions and the Romans weren't
> > particularly concerned who or what you worshiped as long it your
> practices
> > involved nothing illegal or immoral. The Imperial Cult had been
> introduced
> > under Augustus as a way of unifying all the various peoples of the Empire
> -
> > but the Jews were excused because their religion was a long established
> > ethnic cult and the fact the priests in the Temple at Jerusalem offered
> > sacrifice for the emperor's welfare was deemed sufficient.
> >
> > Had Christians been regarded (as at first they were) as a Jewish sect,
> they
> > would not have had any problem from the Roman authorities. It's when they
> > became regarded as a separate cult that trouble began - they were also
> from
> > time to time accused of human sacrifice & cannibalism, which didn't help.
> > But the persecution was essentially political - they were regarded as a
> > subversive movement, dangerous to the state (alas, the 20th century saw
> > similar many examples of the same attitude).
> >
> > The only other religion AFAIK that came unstuck under the Romans was
> > druidism. There are plenty of altar stones in Britain with the names of
> > British and Roman gods on them; the worship of different deities wasn't
> the
> > problem. The druids, according to the Romans, practiced human sacrifice
> (not
> > nice) but, more importantly, were seen as a source of opposition to the
> > Roman state, i.e. their suppression was politically motivated.
>
> The Romans certainly weren't against worship of other gods. They'd
> even join in if it looked appealing to them. Roman soldiers were big
> on Mithra pretty late in the game, and that's a Zoroastrian deity.
>

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