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CONLANG  June 2010, Week 2

CONLANG June 2010, Week 2

Subject:

Re: OT : atheism

From:

Jim Henry <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Tue, 8 Jun 2010 11:09:38 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (117 lines)

On Tue, Jun 8, 2010 at 9:53 AM, Sai Emrys <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 8, 2010 at 4:09 AM, R A Brown <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> †While some modern groups hold views similar to Arianism, it does remain true that belief in a triune God is central to Orthodox and Catholic belief as well as to churches of the Protestant Reformation.

> Surely you only mean that trinity is an aspect (... and a minor one,
> vs. the whole "only through Christ" thing) of those sects of
> Christianity that hold it?

I don't know; it seems that it's about equally important, and that the
two ideas are tied up pretty tightly, in the beliefs of the Christian
groups I know most about (Baptist, Methodist, Presbyterian, Catholic
-- what I was raised as, the denominations I have close friends &
relativions in, what I am now).  Many though maybe not most of them
use orthodoxy re: the Trinity as more or less definitional of
Christianity vs. new religions influenced by Chistianity.


> ObCL: anyone have interesting gender systems?

See the other thread where Alex and I were talking about this in the
context of how conlang generation software could handle lexical
semantics.

I have a sketch of an artlang where gender is more pervasive than in
IE languages -- marked not only on nouns, adjectives and third-person
pronouns, but on all pronouns and on verbs (often suppletively:
distinct and unrelated verbs for men dancing or women dancing or a man
and woman dancing together, for instance).  But how it divides people
into the grammatical genders isn't yet worked out thoroughly.  I
vaguely envisioned it as a bi-gender LŠadan, not being biased toward
one gender's perspective but emphasizing both equally, rather than
ignoring gender differences like the typical gender-inclusive auxlang
or engelang.  I didn't work on it for very long; it would need to be a
collaboration with other conlangers of different genders to fulfil its
goals.


> It would be nice (for this purpose alone - one can imagine other
> drawbacks!) if e.g. people had more names for their gods, and more
> cultural readiness to split naming. Cf. Islam's renaming of
 [the Tetragrammaton elided out of respect to Adam and perhaps others]
> to Allah - though they claim to be referring to the same entity,

My understanding is that "allah" is the Arabic for "god", and they're
typically capitalized by monotheistic speakers of Arabic using English
or by speakers of English refering to
God-as-conceivedy-by-typically-Arabic-speaking-Muslims.  The same
word/name is also used by Arabic-speaking Christians (though some, --
in Malaysia, IIRC? -- have recently gotten in trouble with the Muslims
in government for doing so, though they've been doing so for
centuries).

> Many gods
.....
> - have a stupendous amount of names in certain traditions. (Buddha
> certainly does too.) Perhaps each sub-tradition could take one of them
> as their particular name for the god?

I reckon that would be more counterproductive than helpful re:
ecumenism and interreligious dialogue; it might not simply clarify the
differences between people's ideas about God, as I suppose is your
intention, but could tend to exaggerate them.  I wonder if people with
less knowledge of other religions or less of a habit of abstract
thought might be readier to think "those people believe in a different
God" vs. "those people believe in God but have different ideas about
what he's like" if they use different words/names for God; I see this
happening with some Christians of my acquaintance re: Islam because
English-speaking Muslims usually use the Arabic "Allah".


> Indeed! It would be interesting if our naming system could take that
> into account - to identify e.g. meditation-heavy Christian traditions
> with similar Buddhist ones.

Refer to my earlier post on "spirituality" and "religion" -- some of
the Catholic spiritualities I mentioned, and others I did not, involve
meditation.  But generally, if I'm not mistaken, they differ from
Buddhist and Buddhism-influenced nonreligious meditation in how they
conceive of the purpose and nature of meditation, and at least to some
extent in techniques.  I don't know whether or to what extent
meditation is found in Protestant Christianity -- Baptists are
distrustful of it IME, but I don't know about others.

St Francis de Sales begins his instructions on meditation here,

http://www.catholicity.com/devoutlife/2-02.html

and goes on for several chapters.  St Ignatius Loyola's method is
similar, to the extent I understand it, but I'm less familar with it;
quick googling turns up this:

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/ignatius/exercises.xii.v.html


> I would be fairly surprised if Louie's suggestion of including deific
> gender is actually salient day-to-day for most people.

Indeed; I would not read too much into the linguistic conservatism of,
for instance, Christians who dislike Bible translations done with
gender-inclusive language.  Some, at least -- perhaps most -- are not
thinking "God is male" but something more like "the books God inspired
use masculine metaphors/imagery for God more often than feminine, and
that may not be a historical accident; accurate transations should
preserve such artifacts of language at the risk of distorting what God
said".


> I also suspect that the vast majority of religious dogma is quite
> irrelevant to most non-theologians' actual practice of their religion.

In the short run, maybe; in the long run, changes in belief tend to
lead to changes in practice.

-- 
Jim Henry
http://www.pobox.com/~jimhenry/

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