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CONLANG  September 2010, Week 1

CONLANG September 2010, Week 1

Subject:

Re: Welcome to Clickistan (or the terrors of Xt! phonology)

From:

Patrick Dunn <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sat, 4 Sep 2010 00:40:46 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (102 lines)

On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 12:14 AM, Adam Walker <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> So, I just discovered what is painfully obvious -- CSX, like IPA, is
> woefully underequipped to represent clicks.  I just spent the last two hours
> trying to figure out ad hoc CSX symbols to try to represent what is going on
> in one of my weirdest languages (probably a tie with Q~'u^p!). I know that
> some of the things I describe below as "clicks" are likely not clicks, in
> the techncal sense, since the MOA is not precisely what is desribed by the
> IPA in defining a click, but I lack whatever might be the proper
> terminology, so elucidation would be appreciated.
>
> First of all I will list my cobbled symbols, only some of which are real
> CSX:
>
> 0_0\
> 0\
> |\
> !\
> =\
> |\|\
> |\|\_2
> =`\_-
> =\_G
> =\_?
>
> Now I will give some explination of these horrid symbols and what I think
> *might* be their representatins in a Khoisanist approach:
>
> 0_0 is a kiss, a rounded bilabial click -- Koisanist might use w! (??) -- no
> IPA

Circle with a dot in it?  If you wanted to emphasize the rounding, you
could put a comma under it.

> 0\ is standard CSX for a bilabial click -- K uses m! (IIRC) -- IPA uses
> target

Ahh, yeah.

> |\ is standard CSX for dental click -- K uses t-with-dental-subscript!
> (IIRC) -- IPA uses pipe
> !\ is standard CSX for alveolar (some term this retroflex) click -- K uses
> t! (IIRC) -- IPA uses !
> =\ is standard CSX for palatal click -- K uses c! (tired of typing IIRC) --
> IPA uses double crossed dagger (or double crossed pipe, not sure)

Looks like a pipe to me.

> |\|\ is standard CSX for lateral click -- K uses l! -- IPA uses double pipe
> |\|\_2 is my cludge for a bilateral click -- Lord only knows what anyone
> else would use!

maybe a superscript small L.

> =`\_- is my cludge for a retroflex click in which the bottom of the tongue
> contacts the palat0-alveolar region -- ditto above

I can't do that without pain.

> =\_G is my cludge for a velar click -- K might use k! (???) -- IPA probably
> says no such beast exists

Yeah, no sign for that in IPA.  One of the problems I have with it is
that a click uses suction in the mouth and there isn't much space once
I restrict at the velum to create enough suction for anything but a
sucking/choking sound.  Again, a bit of pain.

> =\_? is my cludge for an epiglottal click -- K could get by with
> crossed-question-mark! (?!) -- IA surely is throwing tomatoes at me now.

I'm not sure this is physically possible.

>
> I'm quite sure that 0_0 and |\|\_2 and =`\_- are real clicks (however shoddy
> my representation of them might be), but I'm not quite so sure that the
> other two qualify as bonafide clicks.

I'd have to hear them.  Hell, I'd probably have to see a spectrogram
of them.  :)  Not that that'd do much good; I'm awful at reading
spectrograms.


> Any way this bizarre mess is the total phoneme enventory of the language.
> Suggestions for better descriptions and/or representations of the phonemes
> would be greatly appreciated.

Well, if it's the whole phoneme inventory, you can do without the !'s,
it seems to me.

>
> Next post I will show the revamped romanization I plan to use now, which
> will necessatate a name change.
>
> Adam
>

I look forward to seeing some of the grammar.

-- 
I have stretched ropes from steeple to steeple; garlands from window
to window; golden chains from star to star, and I dance.  --Arthur
Rimbaud

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