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CONLANG  September 2010, Week 2

CONLANG September 2010, Week 2

Subject:

Re: Possibly the simplest possible self-segregating morphology

From:

Gary Shannon <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 9 Sep 2010 13:37:30 -0700

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (43 lines)

On Thu, Sep 9, 2010 at 11:58 AM, John Vertical <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> On Thu, 9 Sep 2010 11:11:36 -0700, Gary Shannon wrote:

>>Yes, you are correct. Combinatorially, there are many more possible
>>words using a single vowel sound as the distinguishing one, but it
>>seems to me that it is easier to pick out the one distinct vowel sound
>>in a monotonous chain of uniform vowels sounds than to pick one
>>particular vowel sound out of a stream of constantly changing vowel
>>sounds. It's kind of like looking for a rodent, any kind of rodent, in
>>the bathtub as opposed to looking for the gerbil in a room full of
>>rats, mice, squirrels and voles.
>
>>--gary
>
> Not quite, it's like looking for a non-mouse rodent in a room full of
> rodents, of which most are mice. I don't think it's obviously easier. We'd
> need some testing here…
>
> Also, I realized the combinatorial point actually depends on how long the
> words are on average in the language. If there are many monosyllabic but few
> trisyllabic+ words, it then works in the favor of non-initial markers. And
> if words are disyllabic on average, it doesn't matter which way it goes.

Good points. I was thinking along the lines of function words being
monosyllables and content words being two or more.

On Thu, Sep 9, 2010 at 11:45 AM, Brett Williams <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> It has to be some sort of trade-off between simplicity and aesthetics.
>  I can easily make a simpler system: Every word starts with "k"!  The
> question is what's the simplest system that's tolerable at all.
> Here's one I've always thought of: The first syllable in each word is
> a high tone, and the rest are a low tone.

I guess I sort of just assumed a certain minimum aesthetic standard
before a system could even be considered worth the bother. Interesting
how unacknowledged assumptions can color our thinking.

The tone idea is interesting, except that personally I don't like
tones. How do you whisper in tones? And if you can't whisper in tones,
how do you talk in class without teacher catching you? ;-)

--gary

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