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CONLANG  October 2010, Week 2

CONLANG October 2010, Week 2

Subject:

Re: Saltani Noun Cases

From:

Leila Kalomi <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Fri, 8 Oct 2010 13:58:14 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (49 lines)

On Fri, 8 Oct 2010 13:17:08 -0400, Jim Henry <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

>On Fri, Oct 8, 2010 at 11:43 AM, Peter Bleackley
><[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> On 07/10/2010 21:49, Leila Kalomi wrote:
>>> The basic form of the noun is the patientive. This is used for non-active
>>> subjects of verbs and for physically affected objects of verbs.
>....
>>> The agentive is created by the case-marker/postposition _en_.
>.....
>>> (A house can't be agentive, except under surreal circumstances.)
>
>An house in an sf story could have an AI managing an array of robots
>to clean itself and do minor repairs, as well as do climate control
>etc.  Even in a contemporary setting one might use "the thermostat",
>or by metonymy simply "the house", as an active (though perhaps not
>strictly agentive) subject in a sentence like "The thermostat just
>turned on the air conditioning".
>
>> Presumably non-active subjects can't physically affect objects?
>
>How do you mark inanimate forces and semi-autonomous software and
>machines which cause physical changes in patients?   I think John
>Lyons calls this thematic role "force", as in "The wind blew open the
>door" or "The cron job downloads new podcasts every morning at 1 a.m."
>  I can see marking either of them with an active or agentive marker,
>if you don't have a separate force marker, or even with an
>instrumental in the latter case, since all software is ultimately
>under the control of some human,  though its actions may not be
>individually commanded and supervised.
>
>gjâ-zym-byn doesn't have a force marker; I've inconsistently used
>"gân-ř" (because of), "mĭ-i" (topic), and "tu-i" (agent) to mark
>inanimate forces and autonomous but not sentient machines/software,
>and I've also been somewhat inconsistent about using the stative or
>active verb suffixes for such processes which are dynamic but not
>directed by an animate being.  Generally I use "-van" (stative),
>because "-zô" (active) tends to imply deliberate, volitional action on
>the part of an animate agent, but in some cases I feel I have to use
>"-zô" because with a few stems, "-van" and "-zô" derivations have
>idiomatically acquired fairly divergent meanings.

Some things that fall into that "force" category are classified as animates
in Saltani (wind, software, and whatever else I encounter that fits.) Things
that clearly are not animate despite having a physical effect - "the stone
tripped me," "the food will make them sick" - would be causative, I suppose
- "I tripped because of the stone," "they will be sick because of the food."
Thanks for the comments!

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