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CONLANG  October 2010, Week 2

CONLANG October 2010, Week 2

Subject:

Re: Q: sound changes

From:

neo gu <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Mon, 11 Oct 2010 20:52:04 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (58 lines)

On Mon, 11 Oct 2010 17:29:09 -0400, Alex Fink 
<[log in to unmask]> wrote:

>On Mon, 11 Oct 2010 16:58:51 -0400, neo gu 
<[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 11 Oct 2010 21:25:29 +0200, Jörg Rhiemeier
>><[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>>> Tones usually preserve features of lost consonants, with voiceless
>>> consonants giving high tone and voiced consonants giving low
>>> tone.
>
> Much more often than voicing inducing directly, though, is that
> glottalisation or breathy-voicing induces it.  (I think I once read a
> claim that there are no uncontroversial examples of languages in
> which tone *first* arose from simple voicing, and very few even
> among those that already had tone.)  Breathiness yields low tones,
> while glottalisation can yield either.  In my eyes your best sources
> are definitely /?/ and/or the innovated [h].

>>I guess I had that backwards. I was thinking that o < w and i < j
>>might have high tone. Maybe I could develop high tone form stress?
>
> If segments changed from non-tone-bearing to tone-bearing, I'd
> expect them either to acquire a default tone or a tone spread from
> an adjacent vowel. If your default tone was high, o < w and i < j
> could very well get high tone, but then probably ordinary o and i
> would have it as well.
>
> Tone from stress works fine.  Pitch accent isn't really anything but
> stress realised tonally.

So far it looks like I'm limited to /?/ and the original stress. I believe 
high tone can also come from length, but I want those features to end 
up independent. More work is needed.

> Other comments on your sound changes:
>- you don't list /kj/ in the final inventory.  Were you supposing it
> went to /tS/ too?

yes, that change went missing

> In any case, your palatalisations are a little quirky, but certainly far
> from impossible, especially if they're imagined to take place in two
> separate stages, first /k x/ then later /s x_w/.

they do

>- you set up some contrasts in your outcomes as phonemic when,
> going by that list of changes alone, they should just be allophonic. 
> This goes for [C f] and [K h], and [k tS] if I'm wrong about the /kj/.
>
> Alex

[C  f] and [K  h] are indeed complimentary, but still distinct phonemes 
as I understand the term (like [h  N]).

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