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CONLANG Home

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CONLANG  October 2010, Week 3

CONLANG October 2010, Week 3

Subject:

Re: XSAMPA question

From:

Adam Walker <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Wed, 20 Oct 2010 22:20:53 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (59 lines)

On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 9:57 PM, Gary Shannon <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 7:16 PM, Adam Walker <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 5:03 PM, Gary Shannon <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>  First of all,
> >> "caught" does not have the same vowel as "father", like the chart
> >> claims, and neither does "no" have the same vowel as "law".
> >>
> >
> > It all depends, as someone else pointed out, on dialect.  For me
> "caught,"
> > "father," and "law" all have the same vowel.  "No" doesn't. And "hate"
> and
> > "fail" have different vowels.
>
> Another good reason why phonetic description of a language is
> pointless. For me "caught", "father" and "law" are DISTINCTLY
> different vowel sounds, where "hate" and "fail" are IDENTICAL sounds.
> And yet we speak THE SAME LANGUAGE, and I'm sure we could sit across
> the table from each other and have no difficulty whatsoever discussing
> any subject that came up. So tell me again how "mouth noises" have
> anything to do with "language".
>
>
Well, I completely disagree with you, but I won't argue the point.  I think
"mouth noises" are the first or second most intereseting part of language.


> Another example:
>
> The SAMPA chart I'm looking at says GenAm /aI/ is the vowel in "my",
> but the vowel in "my" is a glide from the a in "father" to the "e" in
> "be", so, since the same chart says /A/ is the a in "father" shouldn't
> the "my" vowel be /AI/ in SAMPA .
>
>
Yes, and in my dialect the vowel in "my" is not a diphthong at all, and is
distinct from the vowel in "father." My vowel in "my" is somewhere between
my vowel in "father" and the one I have in "cat."


> The whole chart looks like nonsense to me.
>
> --gary
>


It's not.  Not once you understand it.  All math beyond basic algebra looks
like nonsense to me, but I know that it isn't.  I've just never concerned
myself with learning something I have no use for.  Mayhap you have no need
of the IPA, but you will find it easier to communicate your languages to
others if you learn it.  I don't practice rocketry, even as a hobby, but if
I did, I would need to learn what some of those calculus and trigonometry
squiggles mean.

Adam

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